Insomnia - help

General discussions. Feel free to use this like a support group also.

Do you have more trouble with sleep since PSSD?

No, I sleep better
2
13%
No, same as before
4
27%
Sometimes I have more difficulties to fall asleep (~once a week)
1
7%
Sometimes I wake up in the night (~once a week)
0
No votes
Sometimes I have more difficulties to fall asleep, sometimes I wake up in the night (~once a week)
1
7%
Often I have more difficulties to fall asleep (almost every day)
1
7%
Often I wake up in the night (almost every day)
2
13%
Often I have more difficulties to fall asleep and I wake up in the night (almost every day)
4
27%
 
Total votes: 15
Thomas
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Insomnia - help

Unread post by Thomas »

One of my symptoms is a great trouble with sleep. I can fall asleep OK, but I wake up after 3-4 hours of sleep (whatever the time I go to bed) and I cannot fall asleep again. Thus I am tired and this can not help towards any kind of recovery.
It is the second (and last) time I quit SSRIs. Last time I quit SSRIs, I had 5-hour sleep. I never in my life had this early awakening before (NB: I never needed much sleep - 6 or 7 hours were ok). Doc gave me mirtazapine (although I felt ok) and it worked for sleep.
This time, these insomnias started end of May, just after withdrawal and way before I was worried about PSSD. They got worse.

1) Is that common? I have not seen that symptom discussed much here and was wondering if I was alone (hence the poll - please comment)
2) Any scientific explaination in relation with current theories?
2) Do you have any recommendation to help me with sleep? If possible something safe for PSSD / that does not mess me more (I read mirtazapine could be risky...)
Last edited by Thomas on Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Escitalopram, 10mg/day, Jan-May 2019. Fluoxetine, May-Sept 2019. Mirtazapine 7,5mg/day, November 2019-January 2020. Escitalopram, 5mg/day, Feb-May 2020.
Symptoms: sexual & emotional numbness
Luke20
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:25 pm
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Luke20 »

Hey man I'm fairly new to this forum! I quite citalopram cold turkey in December only 10mg for 8 days! Prior to this I slept like a baby have done all my life. I now sleep 1-2 hours a night at most.. 0 hours most nights.. I am living a life of pure torture because of this and my pssd is so severe and has only got worse since December. I'm certain no sleep is making things worse for me. For sleep Iv tried magnesium, CBD oil, diazepam, alcohol, iv actually got to the stage now when a small cannabis joint before bed is the only thing that gets me some sort of sleep (not ideal I don't like smoking weed) I'm in the same boat as you and am desperate to find out how ssris have damaged my sleep this badly. My heart also does not regulate as in i go to lay down at night and its still going the same as it would if I'm walking.
Thomas
Posts: 306
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Thomas »

Thanks
My heart rate did not change, between 50 and 60bpm
Escitalopram, 10mg/day, Jan-May 2019. Fluoxetine, May-Sept 2019. Mirtazapine 7,5mg/day, November 2019-January 2020. Escitalopram, 5mg/day, Feb-May 2020.
Symptoms: sexual & emotional numbness
Thomas
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 am
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Thomas »

What about antihistaminics? Like hydroxyzine.
Are they safe for us?
Didn't work well for me when I was depressed last year, though...
Escitalopram, 10mg/day, Jan-May 2019. Fluoxetine, May-Sept 2019. Mirtazapine 7,5mg/day, November 2019-January 2020. Escitalopram, 5mg/day, Feb-May 2020.
Symptoms: sexual & emotional numbness
User avatar
Twentyoneguns
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Twentyoneguns »

I have to use an acronym to remember the symptoms of my PSSD, that’s how bad things are. MIST is my acronym, standing for Memory, Insomnia, Sexual and Tinnitus.
Of these four symptoms Insomnia and Sexual are joint number one in how much distress they cause me.
Its been nearly four years since my disastrous tangle with just three Sertraline tablets, in this time I have not had one night of solid sleep. A typical night would be, go to bed at 2300, listen to the radio or a boring podcast for around an hour, at some time during this hour I will fall asleep only to wake and be shocked to see its only 0130. The rest of the night is spent just lying there awake. If I’m lucky I will eventually fall asleep at around 0600 and maybe get an hour or so before waking at 0700.
I never feel tired the next day and don’t feel the need to sleep in the afternoon, however I feel tired in the normal way late in the evening ready for the cycle to repeat.
I really don’t know how I’m still functioning.
I’ve tried antihistamine type sleeping drugs which sort of work for one or two nights, but their effectiveness stops after this and besides I don’t like the way they affect my emotions. I have tried all the usual “tricks” recommended on the internet, which probably effective for someone who is going through a short period of insomnia.
I met someone who is a neuroscientist who works at the local university and whose speciality is circadian rhythms….ideal I thought. He seemed genuinely interested in my case and explained in layman’s terms about how CRs work. It seems the rhythm synchronises not only with daylight but with exercise and food intake. He recommend eating and exercising at strictly the same time each day and to keep the same bedtime (2245 in my case) and to use a daylight lamp set to switch on at my desired waking up time (0700 in my case) and using blackout curtains. He believed this regime would put my circadian rhythm back on track.
I stuck with this for nearly a year with absolutely no improvement. I wore a Fitbit to monitor my sleep and the results were all over the place, mainly light sleep when I did manage to get some with fleeting periods of REM sleep.
I asked my doctor if I could be seen at a sleep clinic, she was most reluctant as she said it was usually for people with sleep apnoea, but did refer me when I asked her who these clinics were for if it wasn’t for someone who hadn’t had a wink of sleep for three years (at that time)
I was eventually called for an assessment and was fitted with a host of sensors and a data recorder and sent home for the night. I didn’t sleep at all that night and yet when I returned the equipment the next day they diagnosed sleep apnoea (surprise, surprise). I went along to their workshop to see what the recommended treatment was all about (CPAP machine…a mask which keeps a positive air pressure to stop airway collapsing… or something) The workshop was as I predicted full of overweight pensioners who smoked and had multiple other conditions who I’m sure would benefit from this machine…I tried it and it did nothing for me. This diagnosis has implications for your driving licence, so don’t even go there. Another example of lazy doctoring with no intention of getting to the bottom of the problem.
The only thing I have found that works sporadically is really heavy exercise in the morning, sometimes this gives me a few more hours sleep, but nowhere near pre PSSD. This doesn’t work all the time and exercising heavily in the afternoon makes matters worse.
I did try to build a spreadsheet to record virtually everything I did and ate during each day vs. sleep quality… it didn’t reveal anything to me, though I might give it another try.
Anyone suffering with just one of these four conditions would be in tears after four years…I don’t know how I (we) cope.
21G
Male
PSSD after 3 days on Sertraline (50mg) (Aurobindo) December 2016 to date.
Tinnitus, insomnia (1.5 hours/night sleep) poor memory/cognition as a bonus!
Possibly PSSD from October 1998...just didn't realise what I was suffering from! (pre internet)
Thomas
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 am
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Thomas »

Worth a try, but my first symptoms were insomnia, low libido and anhedonia. I was feeling very well at that time so I do not think my insomnia is due to stress...
Escitalopram, 10mg/day, Jan-May 2019. Fluoxetine, May-Sept 2019. Mirtazapine 7,5mg/day, November 2019-January 2020. Escitalopram, 5mg/day, Feb-May 2020.
Symptoms: sexual & emotional numbness
Luke20
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Luke20 »

Twentyoneguns wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:34 am I have to use an acronym to remember the symptoms of my PSSD, that’s how bad things are. MIST is my acronym, standing for Memory, Insomnia, Sexual and Tinnitus.
Of these four symptoms Insomnia and Sexual are joint number one in how much distress they cause me.
Its been nearly four years since my disastrous tangle with just three Sertraline tablets, in this time I have not had one night of solid sleep. A typical night would be, go to bed at 2300, listen to the radio or a boring podcast for around an hour, at some time during this hour I will fall asleep only to wake and be shocked to see its only 0130. The rest of the night is spent just lying there awake. If I’m lucky I will eventually fall asleep at around 0600 and maybe get an hour or so before waking at 0700.
I never feel tired the next day and don’t feel the need to sleep in the afternoon, however I feel tired in the normal way late in the evening ready for the cycle to repeat.
I really don’t know how I’m still functioning.
I’ve tried antihistamine type sleeping drugs which sort of work for one or two nights, but their effectiveness stops after this and besides I don’t like the way they affect my emotions. I have tried all the usual “tricks” recommended on the internet, which probably effective for someone who is going through a short period of insomnia.
I met someone who is a neuroscientist who works at the local university and whose speciality is circadian rhythms….ideal I thought. He seemed genuinely interested in my case and explained in layman’s terms about how CRs work. It seems the rhythm synchronises not only with daylight but with exercise and food intake. He recommend eating and exercising at strictly the same time each day and to keep the same bedtime (2245 in my case) and to use a daylight lamp set to switch on at my desired waking up time (0700 in my case) and using blackout curtains. He believed this regime would put my circadian rhythm back on track.
I stuck with this for nearly a year with absolutely no improvement. I wore a Fitbit to monitor my sleep and the results were all over the place, mainly light sleep when I did manage to get some with fleeting periods of REM sleep.
I asked my doctor if I could be seen at a sleep clinic, she was most reluctant as she said it was usually for people with sleep apnoea, but did refer me when I asked her who these clinics were for if it wasn’t for someone who hadn’t had a wink of sleep for three years (at that time)
I was eventually called for an assessment and was fitted with a host of sensors and a data recorder and sent home for the night. I didn’t sleep at all that night and yet when I returned the equipment the next day they diagnosed sleep apnoea (surprise, surprise). I went along to their workshop to see what the recommended treatment was all about (CPAP machine…a mask which keeps a positive air pressure to stop airway collapsing… or something) The workshop was as I predicted full of overweight pensioners who smoked and had multiple other conditions who I’m sure would benefit from this machine…I tried it and it did nothing for me. This diagnosis has implications for your driving licence, so don’t even go there. Another example of lazy doctoring with no intention of getting to the bottom of the problem.
The only thing I have found that works sporadically is really heavy exercise in the morning, sometimes this gives me a few more hours sleep, but nowhere near pre PSSD. This doesn’t work all the time and exercising heavily in the afternoon makes matters worse.
I did try to build a spreadsheet to record virtually everything I did and ate during each day vs. sleep quality… it didn’t reveal anything to me, though I might give it another try.
Anyone suffering with just one of these four conditions would be in tears after four years…I don’t know how I (we) cope.
21G

Hey buddy.. I have literally the same as this everthing you have described with sleep I have! It's been a year for me now since I stopped citalopram 10mg for 8 days. Exercise makes no difference to me there's literally nothing that makes me tired. mine is definitely not anxiety/stress related! I have serious anhedonia so there's no emotion to be able to stress. I will just lay there all night maybe get an hour early hours of the morning, then get up and don't really feel tired atall! in theory we should be knackered from not sleeping 😔 just like you this is completely fucking any hope I had for recovery! Pssd is so bad but this insomnia on top is literally the cruelest thing you could put someone through. How you have done 4 years like this I do not know I take my hat of to you! , Its extremely difficult to cope with.
Thomas
Posts: 306
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:32 am
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by Thomas »

I am surprised, looking at the poll and reading your stories, that insomnia is not reported in symptoms (like anhedonia, btw).
Are you sure you do not sleep at all? Many insomniacs sleep a bit during the night without noticing they do. There are tools to monitor it. I am thinking about buying one.
Escitalopram, 10mg/day, Jan-May 2019. Fluoxetine, May-Sept 2019. Mirtazapine 7,5mg/day, November 2019-January 2020. Escitalopram, 5mg/day, Feb-May 2020.
Symptoms: sexual & emotional numbness
sylv
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:32 am
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Re: Insomnia - help

Unread post by sylv »

PSSD insomnia is like forced wakefulness caused by general anaesthesia and inability to properly feel tiredness. SSRI everything makes shallow and less deep - emotional pain, emotions, sex, sleep, eating, memory, cognitive processes - generally whole life.

Sill having all those + tinnitus and brain zaps in forehead area.
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