Insights into the cause of PSSD
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Insights into the cause of PSSD
I developed a loose theory on the actual cause of PSSD a couple of years ago. After two years of experimentation on myself I do believe now that PSSD is neither an ailment of the brain chemistry or the bodies hormonal system (in its closest sense) nor is it of genetic origin; Instead, I consider it more likely that PSSD originates from a dysfunctional microbiomal composition of the gut, which was imposed through extended use of various agents with antimicrobial properties like certain antidepressants. Therefore, I consider a fecal transplant from a healthy donor as the most reliable means of choice for the treatment of patients with PSSD.
I have taken antidepressants myself for roughly seven years during the course of which I developed severe sexual dysfunction. After five subsequent years with profound PSSD I was eventually able to completely restore my sexual function by undergoing a series of fecal transplantations (FT).
I believe that most manifistations of sexual disorders are more or less related and are essentially different projections of the same neurophysiological and hormonal networks. These networks also provide a possible route through which both the body and the microbiome can interact and influence each other. For instant, the microbiome itself strongly aids the production of neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and others like nitricoxide, which suggests a possible influence on sexual problems.
https://www.dovepress.com/recent-findin ... ticle-PLMI
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5772764/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6061125/
https://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-hig ... /81251136/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 142536.htm
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5615000655
It has been shown that bacteria can influence sexual hormon levels
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879365/
and might even play a role in sexual preference
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27077120/
Furthermore, a microbiomal link has been found between an increasing number of chronic deseases including psychiatric diseases like
major depression - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9115001105
anxiety disorder - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30029052
schizophrenia - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=iwbp20
bipolar disorder - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5616307725
posttraumatic stress disorder - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4794957/
and various others like for example
diabetes - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25901889
alzheimers -https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13601-y
arthritis - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4789258/
(There are numerous more),
and in addition to a microbiomal association, all of these diseases display a high prevalence for sexual dysfunction as an additional commonality.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26003261
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16809251
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949699/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4616558/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017303/
Moreover, various medications that are knwon to cause sexual dysfunctions are also associated with changes in the composition of the microbiome.
https://www.jurology.com/article/S0022- ... 1/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4754147/
Taking all this data into account I believe it is well justified to consider the possibility that the gut microbiome itself contributes to the development of sexual disorders and I cannot see a logical reason why this should not be true for PSSD as well. Additionally, it might explain why PSSD is so long-lasting and sometimes apparently permanent.
In every case of PSSD people already displayed symptoms connected to chronic diseases (for the most part psychiatric), prior to the treatment with antidepressants. In accordance with the provided literature it is therefore reasonable to assume that at the onset of antidepressant treatment a dysbiosis of the microbiome is already present.
The appearing problem now is, that many antidepressants themself possess antimicrobial properties, which further changes the gut bacterial compositon.
antimicrobial - http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script= ... 0000300014
antibacterial - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13678830
antifungal - https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/48/6/775/743783
Additionally, through their mode of action antidepressants like SSRIs profoundly interfere with the neurochemical system, which further influences the gut bacterial composition, as I have mentioned above. Since antidepressants are genrally prescribed for considerable long durations (months, up to years) it makes sense to assume that the microbiome progresses to degenerate, meanwhile producing an increasing number of side effects, and eventually reaching a point from which it cannot easily return to its original equilibrium - This part is admittedly speculative, but there is evidence showing that the equilibrium of the micriobiome can permanently change; I try to find it again later.
This theory also provides explanation for why some people do not achieve remission of PSSD on certain remedies while others improve significantly, as well as why for some this condition disappears naturally over time. Furthermore, it explains why some unfortunate people develop PSSD already after short time exposure to antidepressants; In all cases, the individual status of the microbiome differs greatly in composition between people. That leads to variations in the microbiomal dynamics and response to medications.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5045146/
Please have a first look and contribute your thoughts, ideas and objections.
Blauwasser
[This post has been edited in the way that it now provides theory and scientific data. Therefore it might lead to misunderstandings in the context of following posts]
I have taken antidepressants myself for roughly seven years during the course of which I developed severe sexual dysfunction. After five subsequent years with profound PSSD I was eventually able to completely restore my sexual function by undergoing a series of fecal transplantations (FT).
I believe that most manifistations of sexual disorders are more or less related and are essentially different projections of the same neurophysiological and hormonal networks. These networks also provide a possible route through which both the body and the microbiome can interact and influence each other. For instant, the microbiome itself strongly aids the production of neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and others like nitricoxide, which suggests a possible influence on sexual problems.
https://www.dovepress.com/recent-findin ... ticle-PLMI
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5772764/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6061125/
https://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-hig ... /81251136/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 142536.htm
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5615000655
It has been shown that bacteria can influence sexual hormon levels
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879365/
and might even play a role in sexual preference
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27077120/
Furthermore, a microbiomal link has been found between an increasing number of chronic deseases including psychiatric diseases like
major depression - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9115001105
anxiety disorder - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30029052
schizophrenia - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=iwbp20
bipolar disorder - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 5616307725
posttraumatic stress disorder - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4794957/
and various others like for example
diabetes - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25901889
alzheimers -https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-13601-y
arthritis - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4789258/
(There are numerous more),
and in addition to a microbiomal association, all of these diseases display a high prevalence for sexual dysfunction as an additional commonality.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26003261
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16809251
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3949699/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4616558/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4017303/
Moreover, various medications that are knwon to cause sexual dysfunctions are also associated with changes in the composition of the microbiome.
https://www.jurology.com/article/S0022- ... 1/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4754147/
Taking all this data into account I believe it is well justified to consider the possibility that the gut microbiome itself contributes to the development of sexual disorders and I cannot see a logical reason why this should not be true for PSSD as well. Additionally, it might explain why PSSD is so long-lasting and sometimes apparently permanent.
In every case of PSSD people already displayed symptoms connected to chronic diseases (for the most part psychiatric), prior to the treatment with antidepressants. In accordance with the provided literature it is therefore reasonable to assume that at the onset of antidepressant treatment a dysbiosis of the microbiome is already present.
The appearing problem now is, that many antidepressants themself possess antimicrobial properties, which further changes the gut bacterial compositon.
antimicrobial - http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script= ... 0000300014
antibacterial - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13678830
antifungal - https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/48/6/775/743783
Additionally, through their mode of action antidepressants like SSRIs profoundly interfere with the neurochemical system, which further influences the gut bacterial composition, as I have mentioned above. Since antidepressants are genrally prescribed for considerable long durations (months, up to years) it makes sense to assume that the microbiome progresses to degenerate, meanwhile producing an increasing number of side effects, and eventually reaching a point from which it cannot easily return to its original equilibrium - This part is admittedly speculative, but there is evidence showing that the equilibrium of the micriobiome can permanently change; I try to find it again later.
This theory also provides explanation for why some people do not achieve remission of PSSD on certain remedies while others improve significantly, as well as why for some this condition disappears naturally over time. Furthermore, it explains why some unfortunate people develop PSSD already after short time exposure to antidepressants; In all cases, the individual status of the microbiome differs greatly in composition between people. That leads to variations in the microbiomal dynamics and response to medications.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5045146/
Please have a first look and contribute your thoughts, ideas and objections.
Blauwasser
[This post has been edited in the way that it now provides theory and scientific data. Therefore it might lead to misunderstandings in the context of following posts]
Last edited by Blauwasser on Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:05 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
Despacito
is the real problem of pssd.
is the real problem of pssd.
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Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
Interesting!!
I have three questions:
- did you do bacterial testing before the transplants and if so, what were the results?
- did you have symptoms like diarrhea or the opposite (don't know what it is called in english - hard stool?)
- did you have symptoms apart from sexual dysfunction, like anhedonia, genital anesthesia or other numbness, inability to cry, etc...)
Cheers,
T.
I have three questions:
- did you do bacterial testing before the transplants and if so, what were the results?
- did you have symptoms like diarrhea or the opposite (don't know what it is called in english - hard stool?)
- did you have symptoms apart from sexual dysfunction, like anhedonia, genital anesthesia or other numbness, inability to cry, etc...)
Cheers,
T.
Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
Interesting. I tought of that also. I just kind of hoped this is not the solution... So what you are saying is that you are cured after several stool transplants?
Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
Ciprofloxacin wrote:Despacito
is the real problem of pssd.
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Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
@Timm Thaler
thank you for your questions; I did order a microbiomal analysis about two years ago, which indicated a low count of Bifidobacteria and Lactobacillus and the presence of various pathogenic strains at low cell count. However, analysing the microbiome poses to be problematic, since as of now respective scientific field of research has not progressed far enough to enable a conclusive association of certain pathological phenotypes with respective microbiomal compositions; In other words, an analysis can tell you that something is wrong with your gut, but not precisely what bacteria are to blame. Therefore, it is not of much value, unfortunately.
To your second question: Yes, I did have altered bowel movements, which is one of the initial reasons why I began to suspect a connection to the microbiome. I did not have constipation (I assume that is what you meant with "hard stool" - "Verstopfung"), but generally loose stool, sometimes diarrhea. It is important to know that by now, both diarrhea and constipation are clearly linked to variations of the microbiomal composition. Further, a considerate number of people with PSSD suffer from various degrees of either of those conditions, which suggests an association between PSSD and the microbiome.
And to your last question: Yes, I experienced various other conditions, including anhedonia, sexual anhedonia, inability to cry/overly emotional, depression etc. which sometimes oscillated in intensity over the month and years.
@marsupial
thank you for your question; yes, my PSSD is gone. To be fair, however, it is important to mention that it took several weeks, which is in accordance with the theory that the microbiome is to blame. Further, for the microbiome to fully mature it can take up to several month, which is why a once the sexual function is restored it might be still prone to relapse if you keep further disrupting your microbiome e.g. by the use of antibiotics.
Blauwasser
thank you for your questions; I did order a microbiomal analysis about two years ago, which indicated a low count of Bifidobacteria and Lactobacillus and the presence of various pathogenic strains at low cell count. However, analysing the microbiome poses to be problematic, since as of now respective scientific field of research has not progressed far enough to enable a conclusive association of certain pathological phenotypes with respective microbiomal compositions; In other words, an analysis can tell you that something is wrong with your gut, but not precisely what bacteria are to blame. Therefore, it is not of much value, unfortunately.
To your second question: Yes, I did have altered bowel movements, which is one of the initial reasons why I began to suspect a connection to the microbiome. I did not have constipation (I assume that is what you meant with "hard stool" - "Verstopfung"), but generally loose stool, sometimes diarrhea. It is important to know that by now, both diarrhea and constipation are clearly linked to variations of the microbiomal composition. Further, a considerate number of people with PSSD suffer from various degrees of either of those conditions, which suggests an association between PSSD and the microbiome.
And to your last question: Yes, I experienced various other conditions, including anhedonia, sexual anhedonia, inability to cry/overly emotional, depression etc. which sometimes oscillated in intensity over the month and years.
@marsupial
thank you for your question; yes, my PSSD is gone. To be fair, however, it is important to mention that it took several weeks, which is in accordance with the theory that the microbiome is to blame. Further, for the microbiome to fully mature it can take up to several month, which is why a once the sexual function is restored it might be still prone to relapse if you keep further disrupting your microbiome e.g. by the use of antibiotics.
Blauwasser
Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
A bit of a surprising route to me. How on earth did you find a doctor to do this procedure? And wasnt this reported, logged as a case as possible treatment?
Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
Very interesting, gut route has a lot of potential I feel. I've been getting herbal treatment for a parasite, don't want to be too premature with my results but I am seeing improvements. Would like to see more people on this forum get comprehensive stool tests done
PSSD Since March 2016 after 4 weeks on Sertraline
Conditioned worsened and peaked in April, since then possibly seen a 20% improvement
Would be useful for data collection if people could add their histories in their signature
Conditioned worsened and peaked in April, since then possibly seen a 20% improvement
Would be useful for data collection if people could add their histories in their signature
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Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
@Jaxx
thank you for commenting; I did not find a doctor, because I was not looking for one; The importance of the microbiome for the overall human wellbeing is only recently about to be scientifically unraveled. Modern medicine is so far rather oblivious to its existence, with the exception of some very specific pathological conditions like chronic diarrhea. Therefore, it is probably unwise to propose an idea of this specificity to a medical doctor; I did it once, though, but was patronizingly laughed at. Nevertheless, I am a biochemist by profession and I have spent a great deal of thought and literature research on that topic, so, although they disagreed, I was rather confident that a connection between PSSD and the microbiome was at least reasonable.
To your second question: I checked the list of possible treatment (if that is what your are referring to) and did not find anything.
@raven100
thanks for your reply; great to hear of your improvements. I understand your endorsement for comprehensive stool tests, but it is important to be aware of the limitations of such kind of tests; As I have mentioned before, these tests might provide a lot of data, but when it comes to the evaluation of this information things are not necessarily as clear as one wants them to be. Any kind of medical doctor or practitioner who claims otherwise is not lightheartedly to be trusted, in my opinion.
Blauwasser
thank you for commenting; I did not find a doctor, because I was not looking for one; The importance of the microbiome for the overall human wellbeing is only recently about to be scientifically unraveled. Modern medicine is so far rather oblivious to its existence, with the exception of some very specific pathological conditions like chronic diarrhea. Therefore, it is probably unwise to propose an idea of this specificity to a medical doctor; I did it once, though, but was patronizingly laughed at. Nevertheless, I am a biochemist by profession and I have spent a great deal of thought and literature research on that topic, so, although they disagreed, I was rather confident that a connection between PSSD and the microbiome was at least reasonable.
To your second question: I checked the list of possible treatment (if that is what your are referring to) and did not find anything.
@raven100
thanks for your reply; great to hear of your improvements. I understand your endorsement for comprehensive stool tests, but it is important to be aware of the limitations of such kind of tests; As I have mentioned before, these tests might provide a lot of data, but when it comes to the evaluation of this information things are not necessarily as clear as one wants them to be. Any kind of medical doctor or practitioner who claims otherwise is not lightheartedly to be trusted, in my opinion.
Blauwasser
Re: Insights into the cause of PSSD
Thanks for your elaborate reply! If you didnt find a doctor, did you do the procedure unsupervised? I am only asking because i think many of us are happy to try things, but this is do-not-do-at-home type of thing .Blauwasser wrote:@Jaxx
thank you for commenting; I did not find a doctor, because I was not looking for one; The importance of the microbiome for the overall human wellbeing is only recently about to be scientifically unraveled. Modern medicine is so far rather oblivious to its existence, with the exception of some very specific pathological conditions like chronic diarrhea. Therefore, it is probably unwise to propose an idea of this specificity to a medical doctor; I did it once, though, but was patronizingly laughed at. Nevertheless, I am a biochemist by profession and I have spent a great deal of thought and literature research on that topic, so, although they disagreed, I was rather confident that a connection between PSSD and the microbiome was at least reasonable.
To your second question: I checked the list of possible treatment (if that is what your are referring to) and did not find anything.
@raven100
thanks for your reply; great to hear of your improvements. I understand your endorsement for comprehensive stool tests, but it is important to be aware of the limitations of such kind of tests; As I have mentioned before, these tests might provide a lot of data, but when it comes to the evaluation of this information things are not necessarily as clear as one wants them to be. Any kind of medical doctor or practitioner who claims otherwise is not lightheartedly to be trusted, in my opinion.
Makes me re-think about the anti-fungal topics we have here too!
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