LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Post any data on Treatments and experimentation.
ErgogenicHealth
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm
Contact:

LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by ErgogenicHealth »

Who has had success using Lithium Orotate?

@meso - I am still unsure what Lithium does to 5-HT1A Receptor?

"The enhancement by lithium of the 5-HT1A mediated serotonin syndrome produced by 8-OH-DPAT in the rat: evidence for a post-synaptic mechanism"

It is of interest that while investigations in the rat suggest that short-term lithium treatment enhances the responsiveness of the post-synaptic 5-HT1A receptors that mediate the 5-HT behavioural syndrome (Goodwin
et al. 1986a) electrophysiological studies have failed to demonstrate changes in the sensitivity of post-synaptic 5-HTIA receptors in the hippocampus following a similar
period of lithium treatment (Blier and de Montigny 1985). There is, however, electrophysiological evidence that lithium treatment may enhance the sensitivity of
some sub-sets of post-synaptic 5-HT~a receptors (Blier et al. 1987). It is possible, therefore, that the post-synaptic 5-HTtA receptors involved in PRL, ACTH and GH
release are not among those that react to lithium with an increase in responsivity"


Chronic i.p. administration (21 days) of lithium reduced the Bmax for postsynaptic 5-HT1A sites in the hippocampus, but not in the frontal cortex. There was a specific difference between imipramine and lithium regarding the inhibitory effect on postsynaptic 5-HT1A sites in the frontal cortex. In addition, lithium decreased the affinity of presynaptic 5-HT3 sites in the hippocampus. These findings may be also consistent with the inhibitory effect of lithium on presynaptic autoreceptors, which results in an increase of 5-HT release. It is concluded that enhanced 5-HT neurotransmission which develops during chronic treatment with imipramine or lithium seems to be related to the down-regulation of postsynaptic 5-HT1A receptors in addition to postsynaptic 5-HT2 receptors, which may also have an important role in the antidepressant effects of these drugs.

"These results demonstrate that chronic lithium treatment increases spontaneous ACh release in the hippocampus under conditions of ChE inhibition, but not under normal conditions, and enhances cholinergic neurotransmission through 5-HT1A receptor-mediated pathways, and suggest that activation of 5-HT1A receptor function by lithium is related to the enhancement of hippocampal cholinergic neurotransmission."


"These findings support the notion that lithium has antagonistic actions on 5-HT1A receptors. Inhibition of 5-HT synthesis by PCPA failed, however, to prevent lithium-induced CTA. Evidently, mechanisms other than those governed solely by 5-HT are also involved in lithium-induced CTA."


Long-term administration of lithium decreased the number of not only 5-HT2 receptors in the frontal cortex but also 5-HT1 and 5-HT2 receptors in the hippocampus in rats. Decreases in 3H-5-HT binding to hippocampal 5-HT1 receptors and 3H-spiperone binding to frontal cortical 5-HT2 receptors, caused by chronic lithium treatment, were abolished by co-administration of p-chlorophenylalanine, and were enhanced by co-administration with methiothepin. The turnover of 5-HT in either frontal cortex or hippocampus was facilitated by lithium, and co-administered methiothepin enhanced this facilitation. These results suggest that long-term lithium treatment causes the down-regulation of postsynaptic 5-HT1 and 5-HT2 receptors, in part probably through its action on presynaptic nerve terminals.



I am so confused...

If I respond extremely well to St. John's Wort and Cyproheptadine, is it possible that Lithium could also have the same effect?
User avatar
kpavel
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:50 am
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by kpavel »

Lithium reduces apoptosis and spermidine too. One hypothesis people become suicidal is polyamine catabolism. Either ornithine decarboxylase branch derivatives or arginine decarboxylase ones that involved.
Discovery and validation of blood biomarkers for suicidality
Beyond predictions, as a window into the biology of suicidality, the current work shows overlap at a gene and pathway level with apoptosis (Table 3, Supplementary Table S3 and S4). SAT1, for example, is a key catabolic enzyme for polyamines. Polyamine levels within cells control cell viability, and significant decreases in polyamine levels can result in apoptosis.35 They seem to reflect an endowment for cellular and organismal activity and growth, key characteristics of mood.3, 7, 36 SAT1, which is increased in live SI subjects and in suicide completers in our studies, is highly inducible by a variety of stimuli, including toxins, cytokines, heat shock, ischemia and other stresses. SAT1-overexpressing mice had alterations in their polyamine pool, hair loss, infertility and weight loss.37, 38 Turecki and colleagues39 have provided compelling evidence for changes in the polyamine system in the brain of suicide completers. CD24, our top biomarker decreased in suicidal subjects, also has roles in apoptosis. Mice lacking CD24 show an increased rate of apoptosis.40 It could be that simpler mechanisms related to cellular survival and programed cell-death decision have been recruited by evolution for higher mental functions, such as feelings, thoughts, actions and behaviors, leading to suicidality. In that sense, suicidality could be viewed as whole-organism apoptosis (‘self-poptosis'). Apoptosis mechanisms have previously been implicated in mood disorders, and their inhibition in affective resilience.41 Interestingly, lithium, a medication with clinical evidence for preventing suicidality in bipolar disorder,42 has anti-apoptotic effects at a cellular level.43 Imaging studies have shown reduced gray matter volume in the brain of individuals with bipolar disorder and history of suicide attempts. Long-term lithium treatment was associated with increased gray matter volumes in the same areas where suicide was associated with decreased gray matter.44
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835939/

Also lithium somehow changes inositol pathways, same could be for spermidine/spermine https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7758174/
What I know is that anticancer supplement IP6 activates apoptosis.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18652568/
Leb89
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by Leb89 »

Hey erogenichealth,

I had a very severe worsening with one dose of lithium orotate 5 mg one year ago. I took it after I was almost cured two months after I stopped citalopram which was the first trigger of my pssd. 4 weeks after I stopped citalopram I took 900 mg sjw for two days without any effect. It’s the opposite of a success but I just wanted to inform you, that the lithium really broke me down. And SJW didn’t make me worse.

I think lithium is a very tricky supplement. On discord many people succeeded with it especially in combination with testosterone. But I also read from people that it made them worse like me.

Maybe I just should have taken it longer, idk. Just keep the risk in mind. Anyway good luck!
ErgogenicHealth
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by ErgogenicHealth »

kpavel wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:07 am Lithium reduces apoptosis and spermidine too. One hypothesis people become suicidal is polyamine catabolism. Either ornithine decarboxylase branch derivatives or arginine decarboxylase ones that involved.
Discovery and validation of blood biomarkers for suicidality
Beyond predictions, as a window into the biology of suicidality, the current work shows overlap at a gene and pathway level with apoptosis (Table 3, Supplementary Table S3 and S4). SAT1, for example, is a key catabolic enzyme for polyamines. Polyamine levels within cells control cell viability, and significant decreases in polyamine levels can result in apoptosis.35 They seem to reflect an endowment for cellular and organismal activity and growth, key characteristics of mood.3, 7, 36 SAT1, which is increased in live SI subjects and in suicide completers in our studies, is highly inducible by a variety of stimuli, including toxins, cytokines, heat shock, ischemia and other stresses. SAT1-overexpressing mice had alterations in their polyamine pool, hair loss, infertility and weight loss.37, 38 Turecki and colleagues39 have provided compelling evidence for changes in the polyamine system in the brain of suicide completers. CD24, our top biomarker decreased in suicidal subjects, also has roles in apoptosis. Mice lacking CD24 show an increased rate of apoptosis.40 It could be that simpler mechanisms related to cellular survival and programed cell-death decision have been recruited by evolution for higher mental functions, such as feelings, thoughts, actions and behaviors, leading to suicidality. In that sense, suicidality could be viewed as whole-organism apoptosis (‘self-poptosis'). Apoptosis mechanisms have previously been implicated in mood disorders, and their inhibition in affective resilience.41 Interestingly, lithium, a medication with clinical evidence for preventing suicidality in bipolar disorder,42 has anti-apoptotic effects at a cellular level.43 Imaging studies have shown reduced gray matter volume in the brain of individuals with bipolar disorder and history of suicide attempts. Long-term lithium treatment was associated with increased gray matter volumes in the same areas where suicide was associated with decreased gray matter.44
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835939/

Also lithium somehow changes inositol pathways, same could be for spermidine/spermine https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7758174/
What I know is that anticancer supplement IP6 activates apoptosis.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18652568/


Very interetsting, thats a whole new pathway I haven't explored.

Thanks for sharing. I am still very nervous about trying Lithium. St johns wort helps immensely, but if I stop taking it the effects fade.
ErgogenicHealth
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by ErgogenicHealth »

Leb89 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:27 am Hey erogenichealth,

I had a very severe worsening with one dose of lithium orotate 5 mg one year ago. I took it after I was almost cured two months after I stopped citalopram which was the first trigger of my pssd. 4 weeks after I stopped citalopram I took 900 mg sjw for two days without any effect. It’s the opposite of a success but I just wanted to inform you, that the lithium really broke me down. And SJW didn’t make me worse.

I think lithium is a very tricky supplement. On discord many people succeeded with it especially in combination with testosterone. But I also read from people that it made them worse like me.

Maybe I just should have taken it longer, idk. Just keep the risk in mind. Anyway good luck!


Hey man!

Thanks for the insight, this makes me ultra nervous trying it now haha.

Of course everyone's brain seems to be different in PSSD cases, and Im wondering how citalopram affected you.

Did you ever try Cyproheptadine?

I haven't touched the lithium yet, but I am very very close to it.
Leb89
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by Leb89 »

ErgogenicHealth wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:39 am
Leb89 wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:27 am Hey erogenichealth,

I had a very severe worsening with one dose of lithium orotate 5 mg one year ago. I took it after I was almost cured two months after I stopped citalopram which was the first trigger of my pssd. 4 weeks after I stopped citalopram I took 900 mg sjw for two days without any effect. It’s the opposite of a success but I just wanted to inform you, that the lithium really broke me down. And SJW didn’t make me worse.

I think lithium is a very tricky supplement. On discord many people succeeded with it especially in combination with testosterone. But I also read from people that it made them worse like me.

Maybe I just should have taken it longer, idk. Just keep the risk in mind. Anyway good luck!


Hey man!

Thanks for the insight, this makes me ultra nervous trying it now haha.

Of course everyone's brain seems to be different in PSSD cases, and Im wondering how citalopram affected you.

Did you ever try Cyproheptadine?

I haven't touched the lithium yet, but I am very very close to it.
Hey,

Well I can give you some more info, maybe it helps your decision:

- I never took cipro
- one month after the lithium I had another bad worsening from cialis (two doses) and two weeks later another worsening from arginine
- the arginine worsening was in February 2020
- the only thing I am taking since then is a traditional chinese medicine supplement called „sexton form“ it helps best with libido and orgasm so far, but only temporary, I cycle it
- maybe another info: I was smoking weed regularly when I was younger (13-21 years) I am 31 now. The week before I got PSSD from citalopram I smoked weed, which I maybe did 2-3 times a year after stopping the chronic smoking at 21.
- another one is, that I was really drunk when I took the two doses of citalopram who gave me pssd

I just tell you, because I know you have a lot more knowledge than me about all this. Maybe it helps you.

Well, I have another one. My TCM Doc told me, that 5 mg is a LARGE dose of lithium orotate. I was a bit confused, because I know people take up to 500 mg of lithium for bipolar disorder. But maybe you open the capsule and weigh out 1 mg to begin.

Good luck!
User avatar
kpavel
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:50 am
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by kpavel »

Leb89 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:09 am Hey,

Well I can give you some more info, maybe it helps your decision:

- I never took cipro
- one month after the lithium I had another bad worsening from cialis (two doses) and two weeks later another worsening from arginine
- the arginine worsening was in February 2020
- the only thing I am taking since then is a traditional chinese medicine supplement called „sexton form“ it helps best with libido and orgasm so far, but only temporary, I cycle it
- maybe another info: I was smoking weed regularly when I was younger (13-21 years) I am 31 now. The week before I got PSSD from citalopram I smoked weed, which I maybe did 2-3 times a year after stopping the chronic smoking at 21.
- another one is, that I was really drunk when I took the two doses of citalopram who gave me pssd

I just tell you, because I know you have a lot more knowledge than me about all this. Maybe it helps you.

Well, I have another one. My TCM Doc told me, that 5 mg is a LARGE dose of lithium orotate. I was a bit confused, because I know people take up to 500 mg of lithium for bipolar disorder. But maybe you open the capsule and weigh out 1 mg to begin.

Good luck!
You mean 'sexoton form' obviously.
60 tablets per bottle, each tablet contains 600mg.

A daily dosage of 6 tablets contains:

Radix rehmanniae (Sheng Di Huang) 1010 mg

Fructus corni (Shan Zhu Yu) 506 mg

Rhizoma dioscoreae (Shan Yao) 506 mg

Cortex moutan (Mu Dan Pi) 336 mg

Poria (Fu Ling) 336 mg

Rhizoma alismatis (Ze Xie) 336 mg

Cortex cinnamomi (Rou Gui) 336 mg

The bold-checked thing is what I think can be the thing that helps.
Leb89
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by Leb89 »

kpavel wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:40 am
Leb89 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:09 am Hey,

Well I can give you some more info, maybe it helps your decision:

- I never took cipro
- one month after the lithium I had another bad worsening from cialis (two doses) and two weeks later another worsening from arginine
- the arginine worsening was in February 2020
- the only thing I am taking since then is a traditional chinese medicine supplement called „sexton form“ it helps best with libido and orgasm so far, but only temporary, I cycle it
- maybe another info: I was smoking weed regularly when I was younger (13-21 years) I am 31 now. The week before I got PSSD from citalopram I smoked weed, which I maybe did 2-3 times a year after stopping the chronic smoking at 21.
- another one is, that I was really drunk when I took the two doses of citalopram who gave me pssd

I just tell you, because I know you have a lot more knowledge than me about all this. Maybe it helps you.

Well, I have another one. My TCM Doc told me, that 5 mg is a LARGE dose of lithium orotate. I was a bit confused, because I know people take up to 500 mg of lithium for bipolar disorder. But maybe you open the capsule and weigh out 1 mg to begin.

Good luck!
You mean 'sexoton form' obviously.
60 tablets per bottle, each tablet contains 600mg.

A daily dosage of 6 tablets contains:

Radix rehmanniae (Sheng Di Huang) 1010 mg

Fructus corni (Shan Zhu Yu) 506 mg

Rhizoma dioscoreae (Shan Yao) 506 mg

Cortex moutan (Mu Dan Pi) 336 mg

Poria (Fu Ling) 336 mg

Rhizoma alismatis (Ze Xie) 336 mg

Cortex cinnamomi (Rou Gui) 336 mg

The bold-checked thing is what I think can be the thing that helps.
Thanks for the analysis! I might give the rhizoma an isolated shot.
User avatar
kpavel
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:50 am
Contact:

Re: LITHIUM SUCCESS STORIES?!

Unread post by kpavel »

Not at all, dioscorea from Mexico was used to create hormones 50 years ago. I also tried a supplement with Radix rehmanniae and Wild Yam. The last one seems better. Both are in several formulations for sexuality I saw.
Effect of SA1, a herbal formulation, on sexual behavior and penile erection
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16819173/
SA1 is a mixture of 9 Oriental herbs (Korean red ginseng, fermented soybean, Tribulus terrestris, Fructus Rubi, Fructus Lycii, Semen Cuscutae, Dioscorea Rhizome, Fructus Corni and Fructus Crataegi) that are widely used as energizers and vitalizers in the indigenous system of medicine and have been alleged to improve the sexual functions in men. This study evaluated SA1 using both in vitro and in vivo experiments on laboratory animals in order to determine its effect on the sexual behavior and penile erection. The male rats used to examine the copulatory behavior were administered either the vehicle or SA1 (30, 100, 300, 600 mg/kg) orally for 2 weeks. The intracavernous pressure and systemic blood pressure were recorded in anesthetized rats. The responses to acetylcholine and SA1 of rabbit corpus cavernosum strips were also examined. There was an overall increase in the copulatory behavior parameters in the SA1-treated rats, which was reflected by a decrease in the mount and intromission latencies and an increase in the ejaculation latency and mount frequency. SA1 significantly increased the ratio of the intracavernous pressure to mean arterial pressure. In vitro, SA1 significantly enhanced the relaxation responses to acetylcholine. These results suggest that SA1 improves the sexual activity and erectile function.

Diosgenin from Dioscorea seems to be relevant for pssd symptoms.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests