PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

This is for hypothesis and even educated speculation.
Thomas
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by Thomas »

cdraham wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:53 pm It was shown that often the most epigenetic changes happen in drug withdrawal, this is not just with SSRIs but theres the citalopram study where literally hundreds of genes were changed upon withdrawal.
OK, this would be a good explaination for worsening when quitting (i.e in the following days, a month max?), but not afterwards. I realized my worsening 2 months after stopping but maybe it was already there. Could explain my V-curve also (feeling better just after quitting then worse), side effects being replaced by permanent effects.
Escitalopram, 10mg/day, Jan-May 2019. Fluoxetine, May-Sept 2019. Mirtazapine 7,5mg/day, November 2019-January 2020. Escitalopram, 5mg/day, Feb-May 2020.
Symptoms: sexual & emotional numbness
cdraham
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by cdraham »

Thomas wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:52 am
cdraham wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:53 pm It was shown that often the most epigenetic changes happen in drug withdrawal, this is not just with SSRIs but theres the citalopram study where literally hundreds of genes were changed upon withdrawal.
OK, this would be a good explaination for worsening when quitting (i.e in the following days, a month max?), but not afterwards. I realized my worsening 2 months after stopping but maybe it was already there. Could explain my V-curve also (feeling better just after quitting then worse), side effects being replaced by permanent effects.
I got worse after time too, in withdrawal itself libido and emotions still fluctuated, then it was just gone.

This state cant be good for the brain and i can imagine were prone to developing other issues like dementia/alzheimers etc. with non refreshing sleep and constant neuroinflammation.
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succubus76
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by succubus76 »

cdraham wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:30 am
succubus76 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:14 am
cdraham wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:08 am

And the good old 5HT1A autoreceptor desensitization.

Did meso disproved this whit the vortioxetine trial? Lol
I dont think it holds true
I don't think he proved anything. Can you send me a link?
https://www.pssdforum.org/viewtopic.php ... +mesolimbo

It was a good trial. I enjoyed reading meso experiments. 😆 I really miss him
cdraham
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by cdraham »

succubus76 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:32 am
cdraham wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:30 am
succubus76 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:14 am

Did meso disproved this whit the vortioxetine trial? Lol
I dont think it holds true
I don't think he proved anything. Can you send me a link?
https://www.pssdforum.org/viewtopic.php ... +mesolimbo

It was a good trial. I enjoyed reading meso experiments. 😆 I really miss him
What in that thread confirms theres no 5ht1a desensitization? Can you elaborate?
Markc1113
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by Markc1113 »

This is just my opinion but I think everyone looks at the most complex reasoning behind this. I personally think it’s something such as a chemical imbalance. Dopamine too low or seretonin too high etc. the reason I say this is I can take certain things and almost get back to 100%. If it was permanent damage I don’t think that would be the case. Wellebutrin makes me probably 90% better on all levels but only day after Intake. Buspirone made me 100% better but only for a week while taking it. If it was some sort of dna or epigenetic changes I don’t think that would happen. I could be wrong but just seems to me we always overthink the issues and make it permanent damage when I look on the forums.
Markc1113
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by Markc1113 »

I do think it could be some type of receptor desensitization.
cdraham
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by cdraham »

Markc1113 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:52 am This is just my opinion but I think everyone looks at the most complex reasoning behind this. I personally think it’s something such as a chemical imbalance. Dopamine too low or seretonin too high etc. the reason I say this is I can take certain things and almost get back to 100%. If it was permanent damage I don’t think that would be the case. Wellebutrin makes me probably 90% better on all levels but only day after Intake. Buspirone made me 100% better but only for a week while taking it. If it was some sort of dna or epigenetic changes I don’t think that would happen. I could be wrong but just seems to me we always overthink the issues and make it permanent damage when I look on the forums.
Its great you want to keep things simple however im certain especially severe pssd is not. I can barely get out of bed and stimulants, wellebutrin or any other drugs that mess with neurotransmitters dont do anything in me. If it was a simple chemical imbalance like too low dopamine, too low glutamate then people would at least respond to bandaids temporarily.

I understand where you come from, when you only have minor issues and improve to 90% from some drug then yes what you have is probably only some receptor issues, maybe 5ht1a autoreceptor desensitization.

What im trying to say is some people here have far greater problems than loss of libido or sensation and if it was simple people would have found a fix already by messing with neurotransmitters /hormones. Some cases here have confirmed penile fibrosis which is damage. And thats just one small part
Markc1113
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by Markc1113 »

I gotcha. Yeah I agree some are worse than others with the conditions and there could be multiple factors with what happened.
cdraham
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by cdraham »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5725410/

Added this important study.

"Since few years, there is a growing interest in the effects of sex steroids on brain mitochondrial metabolism. While the mitochondrial effects of testosterone are not well documented, several pharmacological studies have shown that exogenous administration of 17β-estradiol and/or progesterone increases RC function and decreases oxidative stress in brain mitochondria"

-> Is this why some PFS suffers improve from Progesterone?

"Interestingly, the age-induced decline in mitochondrial function could modify sex steroid levels on its own. Thus, mitochondria are not only the targets of sex steroid actions but also the site of the initial steps of steroidogenesis."

-> Is this where the neurosteroids deficit in PFS stems from?
Semogomes
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Re: PSSD could be a mitochondrial disorder

Unread post by Semogomes »

Hi @cdharam
How could the mitochondrial theory explain those cases of people who got it by few pills. I got it with 3 pills of venlafaxine, 37.5mg (half low dose)
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