I think i am close to discovering the cure.

This is for hypothesis and even educated speculation.
User avatar
guacamo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:03 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by guacamo »

Because in every case that inositol cured PSSD it was taken full dose before bed. Serotonin firing in somer areas during sleep is inhibited or almost nonexistent, it is possible that there is interconnection between those 2 events. I think it should be taken at least 7 weeks. Also consider the fact that many people took inositol and it did not help. Those who benefited from inositol used serotonergic drugs, in one case it was tramadol- SERT inhibitor and possibly serotonin releaser and berberine, which was also proven that it raises serotonin level. The mechanism in how those substances contributed to recovery is a mistery. However i do not know if mixing inositol with serotonergic drugs is save as inositol is second messenger for serotonin, mediates serotonin release via its metabolit IP3 which raises intracellular Ca2+, long story short there is serotonin release from synaptic vesicle. I think many users will disregard safety protocols as having even slight chance of recovery gives hope to every member of this forum.


@edit There is possibly no need for high dose of SSRI as tramadol has SERT occupancy of 80%, similar to SSRI at dosage above 400mg, which is overdose. Study was done on humans so data is equivalent. We don't need to worry here about the correctness of the data and there is no need to make transitions of metabolism from mices to humans. Although we cannot exlcude the fact that if it is actually SERT interaction that contributed to the recovery, then some people might benefit from higher SERT occupancy. SSRIs have this mechanism that correlation between SERT occupancy and plasma level of the drug is in a way that just a few miligrams occupy SERT at very high rate and increasing dosage above let's say 25mg of sertraline to 200mg makes less difference than raising from 5mg to 10mg. https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cms/10 ... m88f3.jpeg
Last edited by guacamo on Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:09 pm, edited 6 times in total.
finities infinities
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by finities infinities »

It's very interesting what you write. I sent you a message on PW. There is something in your theory that coincides with my experiences (I have PSSD after 5ht2b antagonist!). All agents such as inositol calcium, 5htp increase this weird symptoms by releasing serotonin. And antagonists mask the symptoms and make it very bad after withdrawal.
Sb919
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:07 pm
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by Sb919 »

I'm going to stick with inositol alone for the moment. I don't have the guts to combine with anything too crazy. I was thinking of continuing with lithium along side, but I read lithium depletes inositol, so I think it would be counterproductive.

Other than that, all I have is liquid fluoxetine (was trying it in microdoses a few months ago), but again I am nervous of the potential for serotonin syndrome. Also it has a ridiculously long half life.

I can always try again in the future if inositol alone doesn't work.
User avatar
guacamo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:03 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by guacamo »

There were trials combining SSRIs with inositol, i do not have access to the paper right now but from memory out of like 30 persons 1 developed serotonin syndrome, but there might be no causation. Inositol was taken by many and in most cases taken alone did not help. You are right that taking inositol with lithium is counterproductive, as lithium works by dysrupting inositol metabolism. Fluoxetine has very long half life so it excludes it as potential addition to inositol therapy.
link11
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:54 pm
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by link11 »

guacamo wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:19 am At what time of the day did u took inositol and how much did u took and for how long? Did u mix it with other supplement or medicine?
11g a day for 5 weeks and in the daytime. Only other thing was cistanche tubulosa I think but didn't take that for long. The inositol changed my cognition about 4 weeks in and I stopped it. Regret taking it a lot
User avatar
guacamo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:03 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by guacamo »

I have no idea what cistanche tubulosa is so i can not provide you any information regarding interaction between it and inositol. I heard horror stories about combining inositol with other things, mostly street drugs like MDMA, in these stories however everything came back to normal after about 3 months.
finities infinities
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by finities infinities »

Do you think we can have also a hyperactivity 5ht2b signal (intracellural calcium, vasopressin, renin, CRF etc?).
There is little information about these receptors, it is interesting if they cause this "existential terror" because I know that activation of 5ht2a / c causes dysphoria, existential terror.
Symptoms like this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/com ... psychosis/
User avatar
guacamo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:03 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by guacamo »

I do not say anything about 5-HT2B hyperactivity. If anything it would be hypoactivity but i do not say this either. All i say is that there is correlation between every recovery story and 5-HT2B receptor, VGCCs, and IP3. About 5-HT2A receptor it is known that it contributes to psychosis, second generation antipsychotics have high affinity for 5-HT2A which contributes to their effects. The theory is that 5-HT2A receptor in stone age mediated that there is some sort of danger, let's say during hunting, so your senses are intensified to look for a tiger for example. After continous stimulation receptor downregulates, so your senses can calm down and you can relax. When there is no presence of danger receptor downregulates too, so you do not waste energy to look for something that does not exist, because prehistoric men had to conserve energy expenditure. This is just a theory and trivia.
Last edited by guacamo on Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
finities infinities
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:37 am
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by finities infinities »

Alpha 1 adrenergic receptors are also strong release IP3 and AMPA glutamate receptor activation appear activate both group: alpha1 adrenergic+5ht2 recptors in medial prefrontal cortex. I tryed AMPAkines and alpha 1 agonist and I noticed a familiar effect similar to carbamazepine ( reduction carbamazepine paws through AMPA or alpha1 activation with very strong OCD reduction and anhedonia). AMPAkines withdrawal and alpha1 agonist withdrawal are similar to carbamazepine withdrawal, but AMPAkines withdrawal decrease serotonin activity and slighty enhanced libido ( acute AMPA activation have this dysphoric 5ht2a vibe, which is strong covered by strong adrenergic activation). Carbamazepine is also this ,,dysphoric element". I mention this because
carbamazepine is monoamine releaser and probably cured my mild PSSD after escitalopram, maybe through fast 5ht desensitization system like ampakines. But carbamazepine
withdrawal is like nightmarre like strong antipsychotic- very low alpha1 activation and probably GABAA.
Maybe my PSSD have other etiology. My first PSSD was after risperidone and quetiapine in 2008/9 this ,,PSSD" was cured by serotonin increase drug- clomipramine and carbamazepine- both increase serotonin. My next PSSD is after next 5ht2a blocker- mianserin, very severe PSSD with extreme anxiety. I took mianserin for my OCD and anhedonia symptoms from carbamazepine PAWS, this not help but add new traumatic symptoms like bad trip.
Last edited by finities infinities on Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
climb
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:09 pm
Contact:

Re: I think i am close to discovering the cure.

Unread post by climb »

Hi Guacamo,

Thanks for your efforts.
I don't know if it helps your theory building or not, but inositol simultaneously restored my libido and worsened my ED. It also made me really spaced out. I then had a really terrible crash when I stopped.
I suspect that anything increasing serotonin might have similar impact on sexual symptoms for me, so I've been afraid to try lithium.
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests