*Sigh* Serotonin syndrome for the second time

[Whalefallen]

Hello,
I'm currently lying in bed with symptoms of moderate serotonin syndrome. I'm pretty sure it will give me almost complete PSSD this time.

Last time I had it was this spring, from taking a too large dose of ashwagandha for six months, stopping, then starting again. Tremors, ringing in ears, profuse night sweats, tingling, the works. Without thinking, I also had combined the ashwagandha with the HDAC inhibitor vorinostat a few times (used for fear extinction) before stopping it the first time. I suppose all the symptoms could conceivably have been caused by anxiety, but the clincher is the lasting impairment of sexual function.

After my first bout of SS, my sexual function was initially greatly impaired, with 100 % completely pleasureless orgasms (that also left me feeling sad and anxious afterwards) and weaker erections. I also developed prostatitis; it felt as though during ejaculation, a muscle that used to flex and bring on the explosive pleasure had been inactivated. The PSSD gradually started improving though, and until last week, I was at about 70 % of normal sexual function in most respects.

Now, however, I'm pretty sure all that progress will be undone. This time it was brought on by simply using 300 mg of l-theanine for a few days (which I realize now caused the tremors which I was trying to treat) and yesterday I combined it with half a teaspoon of black seed oil (also used for fear extinction as it's a HDAC inhibitor). The symptoms are almost identical to the ones I had the first time. Shouldn't be able to get SS from such mild OTC medications, right? Well, I wonder if the fact that I combined the ashwagandha and HDAC inhibitor earlier might have somehow caused my baseline serotonin production to become epigenetically increased, or my receptors are just very sensitive/damaged from the previous episode of SS.

So I'm trying to get used to the idea of an asexual life, at least for the forseeable future. Would appreciate any tips for a "starter course" of non-serotonergic PSSD things to try. I'm staying away from medication for now, but in the future, I wonder whether the likes of BPC-157 and the HDAC inhibitor I have (vorinostat) could somehow be used to first repair my serotonergic hypersensitivity, then be used to restore my epigenome to "factory settings", if time doesn't heal. Not really looking forward to trying weird drugs to alleviate a symptom brought on by OTC supplements, but we'll see if it comes to that.

Thanks for listening to my story.

EDIT: I was feeling incredibly anxious when I wrote the above, I've calmed down a bit now.

[Jones]

Hey there.

Wait, so you say you got PSSD- like symptoms from ashwagandha and the serotonin syndrome that it caused? You have never used an SSRI before?

If that's the case this is interesting for research and confirms PSSD has certainly somehting to do with serotonin, and maybe its a case of serotonin syndrome-toxicity.

How long have you been feeling bad after the theanine trial? I believe that if you had such a recovery it is difficult to be ruined long term by a couple of supplements but idk.

My 70% recovery was ruined too as you can see in my signature.

[Whalefallen]

Hi!

Yeah, a normal OTC brand of ashwagandha gave me highly PSSD-like symptoms which have yet to resolve about 5 months after cessation. Before this latest episode of SS, I had weaker and fewer erections, markedly weaker orgasms and occasional sadness and anxiety post-orgasms. My semen also became more watery. It's extra infuriating due to the fact that I decided to go with ashwagandha instead of SSRIs to deal with an extremely stressful life situation, chiefly because I was afraid of PSSD!

I took 400mg (one pill) of ashwagandha, the amount recommended on the jar, every night for about six months because I'd heard it was safe for the long term. As I took it, my sexual function gradually worsened, but I put down this to the stress of the situation I was dealing with since I'd only heard good things about its sexual effects. When I write "too large dose", I meant that it seems in retrospect to have been too large for me — I had a brief period while tapering it the first time to about half the dose recommended on the bottle where I actually felt as though it was boosting my sexuality and making me feel great in general, but when I tried starting it up again at that dose a week after tapering to zero, I got hit with serotonin syndrome. I then quit without any taper in panic after a few days of SS, which might explain its persistence.

Prior to the SS, I had also combined it with the epigenetic modulator vorinostat a few times (thinking there'd be no interactions) to bad effect which may have caused the sexual changes to become encoded in my epigenome? I'm not sure if that is the cause for the post-cessation persistence of the changes, but the initial impairment of sexual function was solely due to the ashwagandha, of that I am certain.

I'm actually feeling a bit better today — I took the combination this Sunday, so not a lot of time has passed. I did actually wake up with morning wood today, but that might just be because I drank lots of water prior to falling asleep again. I was feeling really anxious when I wrote the first post, and I guess it's impossible to say what the consequences will be for my PSSD. Black seed oil is actually a pretty strong HDAC2 inhibitor, which could hypothetically actually be really useful under other PSSD circumstances (I think?), but I feel as though overloading my already super-sensitive system with serotonin is bound to have some adverse effects :/

Sorry to hear you also had a setback! What caused it?

[Jones]

Its really ironic that you had done such a good research before trying anything and you ended up having problems either way. I mean, wow.

Your case reminds me of fellas who were scared of propecia and tried saw palmetto instead, and developed similar syndrome to pfs.

However, observating that different substances can cause same persistant effects can only be beneficial to our research.

By comparing the mechanism of action of all this substances we can reach to precious conclusions.

Anyway, since you already feel better, your setback was probably nothing to worry about. Since you were feeling 70% normal you shouldnt bother trying anything in the first place. Just enjoy it.

How long have you had "pssd" for ?If its only from Spring, which means a few months, and you had recovered 70% in such a short period, its really nothing to worry about. It will go away for sure.

That's the thread about my setback. http://www.pssdforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 199#p13199

[Whalefallen]

Yeah, pretty unlucky... And that's not even mentioning my reason for trying ashwagandha and HDAC inhibitors and stuff in the first place: mold caused me to develop a panic-inducing aversion to the love of my life. These last couple of years have truly been the most difficult and unfortunate ones in my entire life.


You can read my story here: https://www.reddit.com/r/offmychest/com ... nd_i_will/

My life's been a neuropunk romantic horror opera every single day for two years now with the mold stuff – I can imagine it must be equally hellish to have PSSD for years on end. But thanks for giving me some perspective on my sexual dysfunction, surely mine is a rather mild case compared to some. Here's to hoping for a full recovery – I've had the PSSD (or whatever you want to call it) since April, when I stopped the ashwagandha.

So sorry for your setback. Sounds as though you were making good progress before it though – it can surely get better again.

[Kinncrimson]

Ashwaganda reduces 5-HT1A sensitivity, so PSSD might be the result.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3331105/

[Whalefallen]

Crap :/ Are there any successful methods to reverse/resensitize it?

[Bigmum]

Such a stupid story....))))))))))
I can't belive )))
Hope that you ll recover

[Kinncrimson]

I'm sorry, I didn't want to unsettle you. You don't have PSSD.
To call it PSSD there must be a Serotonin Reuptake Inhibator involved.
But a decrease in sensitivity at the 5-HT1A receptor can lead to sexual problems.

In theory a 5-HT1A receptor antagonist like Metergoline should re-sensitise said receptor.

Take a look at my Metergoline thread, I hope it will help you.
http://www.pssdforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=768

[DGard]

I am suffering from the same problem after Ashwagandha!

Does Ash decrease the activity of the post-synaptic 5ht1a receptors? or does it upregualte the activity of the 5ht1a autoreceptors?

Any update?

Anything I can take to fix myself up besides Metergoline?