PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

This is for hypothesis and even educated speculation.
Kostakonkordia
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by Kostakonkordia »

HzeTmy wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:06 pm Does "red light therapy" or infrared lamps heal small fiber neuropathy ? I remember somewhere i read it as a option to cure PSSD that's why i ask.
I heard that someone recovered from anhedonia using it. Im definitely trying it out. Also some folks reported that they had windows when they where extensively exposed to sunlight.
Thats probably the cheapest option(that im also ordering) if you dont want to spend like 200 bucks or go to some spa centers etc.:

https://www.amazon.de/Susian-Light-Ther ... 354&sr=8-2
flexstar13
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by flexstar13 »

After my antibodies for sfn came back slightly positive I will now try to get a skin biopsy done. I am more or less convinced that in my case it is indeed sfn as I have also less sensation all over my body, dry skin in my face under my beard, changes in sweating etc. Healy also is going on this direction with his blog posts.
I do another sufferer who confirmed sfn with skin biobsy but the hospital who made the tests sent her home without any treatment advice.
sylv
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by sylv »

I have dysautonomia, but I think it's central orogin ( brain ) not any issue with the nerves. Just like you could be cortically blind without any issues with the eyes and nerves.

Healy is biased to always present eccentric theory of something. I don't see why he excludes brain and look on peripherial NS. There is so much symptoms pointing to brain, not saying this is actual SSRI target as a treatment. No one in research except Healy explains SSRI induced emotional blunting as some feedback-based secondary effect of disordered peripheral nervous system. Just no one.
Last edited by sylv on Sun Oct 30, 2022 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sylv
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by sylv »

Anyway there is no data how common dysautonomia is in PSSD. Hypothetically this could be a persistent symptom more specific to SNRI or NRI. Just like SSRI it's perfectly reasonable that NRI could cause persistent side effect ( like dysautonomia ) as a long term neuroplasticity - adaptive change against chronically increased noradrenaline tone. Some persistent changes in Locus Coeruleus ( connected to Dorsal horn of spinal cord controlling many sensory systems ) which is packed with NA could explain autonomic system and sensory symptoms. Central nervous system is more plastic than peripheral nervous system. This is common knowledge that so called "post acute withdrawal" / PSSD is much more severe in regard to SNRIs than SSRIs. In PSSD community there are rare reports of persistent Post SSRI Syndrome / PAWS - alike symptoms from people using Reboxetine / Bupropion even Methylphenidate. These people rarely complain about sexual dysfunction but more about emotional blunting and PAWS anxiety ( mirroring acute effect of NA antidepressants )
Last edited by sylv on Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
DeepRacer
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by DeepRacer »

Idk get why everyone gets so focused on antidepressants being unique in causing this condition. Finasteride and Accutane cause indentical symptoms to the ones we’re experiencing. Now what do Finasteride, antidepressants and Accutane all have in common? Well we know they’re all extremely anti androgenic. Androgen receptors are extremely important in all sexual and cognitive functions. There have been a number of studies on how all of these medications are extremely toxic for androgen receptors. We need to stop coming up with these exotic theories that have no ways of investigation and lead nowhere. Antidepressants are not unique. The PFS community is actually funding useful research that is looking into things with actual potential like looking at penile tissue samples of finasteride victims for changes in epigenetics and androgen receptors.
Numby
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by Numby »

@DeepRacer Thanks for this post. I couldn’t agree more.
sylv
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by sylv »

DeepRacer wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:51 pm Idk get why everyone gets so focused on antidepressants being unique in causing this condition. Finasteride and Accutane cause indentical symptoms to the ones we’re experiencing. Now what do Finasteride, antidepressants and Accutane all have in common? Well we know they’re all extremely anti androgenic. Androgen receptors are extremely important in all sexual and cognitive functions. There have been a number of studies on how all of these medications are extremely toxic for androgen receptors. We need to stop coming up with these exotic theories that have no ways of investigation and lead nowhere. Antidepressants are not unique. The PFS community is actually funding useful research that is looking into things with actual potential like looking at penile tissue samples of finasteride victims for changes in epigenetics and androgen receptors.
The assumption PSSD is caused by anti-androgen action and it's the same disease like PFS has never been proven

This discussion is about SFP / Autonomic nervous system, not androgens so please stay on topic.
Numby
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by Numby »

@Sylv I think it’s very much “on topic” to say that one does not believe in the SFN theory, and to explain why. Basically, it is good that there are different theories because if we are honest, no one knows what causes PSSD. Although I don’t believe in SNF it’s good if someone follows this path and tries to verify or disprove the theory. It’ll bring us one step forward in understanding what PSSD is.
DeepRacer
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by DeepRacer »

sylv wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:54 am
DeepRacer wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:51 pm Idk get why everyone gets so focused on antidepressants being unique in causing this condition. Finasteride and Accutane cause indentical symptoms to the ones we’re experiencing. Now what do Finasteride, antidepressants and Accutane all have in common? Well we know they’re all extremely anti androgenic. Androgen receptors are extremely important in all sexual and cognitive functions. There have been a number of studies on how all of these medications are extremely toxic for androgen receptors. We need to stop coming up with these exotic theories that have no ways of investigation and lead nowhere. Antidepressants are not unique. The PFS community is actually funding useful research that is looking into things with actual potential like looking at penile tissue samples of finasteride victims for changes in epigenetics and androgen receptors.
The assumption PSSD is caused by anti-androgen action and it's the same disease like PFS has never been proven

This discussion is about SFP / Autonomic nervous system, not androgens so please stay on topic.
You can literally read about antidepressants and Accutane causing anti androgenic behavior here. It's extremely well documented: https://www.propeciahelp.com/wp-content ... ndrome.pdf
I think we need to step back and revaluate the direction we're headed. If we continue down this rabbit hole of eccentric theories also being pushed by David Healy, we're never going to get anywhere or make any progress. In the document I linked, you can clearly see countless studies showing how finasteride is so similar to the anti androgenicity of antidepressants and isotretinoins.
sylv
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Re: PSSD could be small fiber polyneuropathy

Unread post by sylv »

DeepRacer wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:43 pm
sylv wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:54 am
DeepRacer wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:51 pm Idk get why everyone gets so focused on antidepressants being unique in causing this condition. Finasteride and Accutane cause indentical symptoms to the ones we’re experiencing. Now what do Finasteride, antidepressants and Accutane all have in common? Well we know they’re all extremely anti androgenic. Androgen receptors are extremely important in all sexual and cognitive functions. There have been a number of studies on how all of these medications are extremely toxic for androgen receptors. We need to stop coming up with these exotic theories that have no ways of investigation and lead nowhere. Antidepressants are not unique. The PFS community is actually funding useful research that is looking into things with actual potential like looking at penile tissue samples of finasteride victims for changes in epigenetics and androgen receptors.
The assumption PSSD is caused by anti-androgen action and it's the same disease like PFS has never been proven

This discussion is about SFP / Autonomic nervous system, not androgens so please stay on topic.
You can literally read about antidepressants and Accutane causing anti androgenic behavior here. It's extremely well documented: https://www.propeciahelp.com/wp-content ... ndrome.pdf
I think we need to step back and revaluate the direction we're headed. If we continue down this rabbit hole of eccentric theories also being pushed by David Healy, we're never going to get anywhere or make any progress. In the document I linked, you can clearly see countless studies showing how finasteride is so similar to the anti androgenicity of antidepressants and isotretinoins.

I read this paper. It's mostly pointing to testosterone and DHT. There is a lot literature on testosterone deficiency and I don't see it mentioning a lack of androgens causing dysautonomia, genital anaesthesia or severe emotional blunting. I would rather believe PFS is a rare manifestation of severe neurosteroids deprivation which finasteride is well documented to cause, while SSRI effect on neurosteroids is a mild and inconsistent. The sexual symptoms also aren't completely the same like the Cobi Reisman pointed out in the last webinar. If you look closely what SSRI could persistently cause it's Tardive Dysphoria / Akathisia, Frontal lobe syndromes, PAWS and PSSD. All are probably the different variation of the same disorder as being caused by the same substance. PFS effect on mental functions isn't so wide. I have never seen PFS sufferers reporting akathisia. Also PSSD people don't mention so much physical symptoms like shrinking genitalia, drastic muscle damage ( except rarely proprioception ), skin damage or gums damage like PFS people do.

Similiar symptomatology could be caused by many completely different diseases. For example flu-like symptoms being present in fungal , bacterial, virus infection, cancers and a lot more. All could be alleviated by anti-inflammatory drugs but not cured, because are different diseases.
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