Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

General discussions. Feel free to use this like a support group also.
User avatar
guacamo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:03 am
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by guacamo »

Can anyone make tl;dr of his PDF? I have problems with the download.

I do admit that i did not look into PDF itself and I am largery sceptical to the simplified etiology outlined in the post, while recognizing that what it provides is only limited summarization of the whole concept. It doesn't mean that i do not appreciate the effort and work that was done here.

As far as Mr. Healy response, I think it is hard to blame him for such a response, he possibly has read so many theories over the years for all of them to fall short of explaining what is really going on, that it is natural for him to react with scepticisim in any concept that is mostly theoretical and wasn't field tested yet. Theory that didn't produce positive outcome in reproductable manner will always fall victim of this, but if there will be a day that such reproductable theory will come to fruition, it won't need to be defended, the results will simply stand for itself.

I wish you all best of luck.
prop
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by prop »

guacamo wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 4:18 pm Can anyone make tl;dr of his PDF?
TL;DR

PSSD, PAS, PFS, and post-AI syndrome are identical with acquired estrogen resistance, and should be treated with estrogen supplementation that is very slowly tapered off.

The most striking shared symptoms between PSSD, PRSD (AKA PAS), PFS, and PAMD (AKA post-AI syndrome) are genital numbness, on top of other (often severe) sexual, emotional, and cognitive dysfunction. Additionally, they tend to show up in full force a few days after quitting the offending medication.

This suggests they are fundamentally the same disorder, caused by different medications.

According to the paper, these medications disrupt the homeostatic mechanism itself, according to this timeline:
  1. The first dose of an SSRI, Finasteride, or Accutane causes a sudden rise in estrogens and decrease in androgen.
  2. The body responds by killing off estrogen receptors, and growing new androgen receptors.
  3. Since a balance between hormones and receptor count has been achieved, many people feel more-or-less fine at this stage, for as long as they continue the medication.
  4. The individual stops taking the medication.
  5. Because the medication is slowly eliminated, estrogen and androgen levels slowly return to their normal, pre-medication levels.
  6. The number of estrogen and androgen receptors do not return to normal, because they were altered by a sudden rise in estrogen and sudden drop in androgen.
  7. The unfortunate victim is now stuck with too few estrogen receptors and too many androgen receptors.
The timeline for post-AI syndrome is counter-intuitive (since they reduce estrogen, not increase it), but practically the same:
  1. The first dose of an AI causes a sudden drop in estrogen.
  2. This immediately causes severe sexual, emotional, and cognitive dysfunction, so the individual does not take any more AI.
  3. Estrogen levels suddenly rebound, not back to their normal level, but higher than normal. Patient feels much better, although with symptoms of high estrogen.
  4. The body responds by killing off estrogen receptors, and growing new androgen receptors.
  5. Since a balance between hormones and receptor count has been achieved, many people feel more-or-less fine at this stage, for a few days.
  6. Estrogen and androgen levels slowly return to their normal, pre-estrogen-rebound levels.
  7. The number of estrogen and androgen receptors do not return to normal, because they were altered by a sudden rise in estrogen and sudden drop in androgen.
  8. The unfortunate victim is now stuck with too few estrogen receptors and too many androgen receptors.
Quoting from the paper:
Only a situation similar to the one described above can explain how a medication that induces severe estrogen deprivation results in chronically low estrogen symptoms after discontinuation.
The cure, as proposed in the paper, is long-term, low-dose estrogen supplementation with a slow taper. Specifically, they recommend Clomid, because it has a long-lasting pro-estrogen isomer, but Hops is also recommended as a high-estrogen supplement.
Archive of PSSD recovery stories: https://pssd.netlify.app/
DJoke
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by DJoke »

@Prop please do not spread misleading informations. Protocol suggested in the PDF for men is as below:
***Men:***
"Because the HPGA operates on a negative feedback loop based on estrogenic activity, increases in Estradiol will inhibit secretion of GnRH and shut down the axis, leading to detrimental effects in fertility and production of androgen and other hormones. As a result, any increases in Estrogen need to be accompanied by a temporary replacement of androgens, along with maintenance of endogenous production in the testes. Intramuscular injections are the most dependable way to produce predictable effects and are necessitated. Testosterone is preferable as aromatization is desirable, but DHT can substitute it if need be. The ester of testosterone administered can vary but should be long-lasting to avoid the need of multiple daily injections. Doses will vary between patients but should be in the 120 to 200mg range for Testosterone and 500 to 1000iu of HCG, per week. These are TRT ranges. Estradiol administration will vary depending on amount and frequency necessary to produce recovery and minimise adverse effects. 2 to 4mg are good options for initial doses. Estradiol Ester should be of short to medium duration, to avoid averse reactions and control levels. Estradiol Benzoate or Valerate are good options. Treatment should be maintained until patient reports stability in recovery, ceased, and then followed by a clomiphene protocol to restore endogenous production and discontinue exogenous supplementation.

Example Protocol:
Estradiol Valerate(3mg) + Testosterone-Enanthate(150mg/week) + HCG(1000iu/week) Followed by: Clomiphene citrate 25 or 50mg ED or EOD depending on patient.

***Additional options:***
If TRT or injections need to be avoided, Mesterolone(Proviron) provides a good alternative for men. Mesterolone is a synthetic derivative of DHT. Mesterolone is taken orally, but is not metabolised in the liver, and thus liver toxicity is not a concern. Mesterolone binds to and activates the androgen receptor, with weaker androgenic potential than DHT. The main desirable effect of Mesterolone in this case will be its SHBG-binding property. Mesterolone has a very strong affinity for SHBG, potentially higher than DHT. Because of this, it will severely reduce the amount of Testosterone, DHT and Estradiol that are SHBG-bound. This increased amount in free levels of the above hormones will result in their increased activity. Thus mesterolone monotherapy is a viable alternative, but may not be as efficient as a full protocol.
Mesterolone can also be used in combination with TRT + hcg or HCG alone. Example protocols:
Mesterolone 50mg ED + 2000iu HCG per week + 2mg estradiol valerate"
There is nothing about long term low dose estrogen supplementation. Increasing estrogen in males without TRT protocol can lead to worsening of the condition and it may be dangerous. Of course the main factor in proposed curation is increasing Estradiol levels alongside with TRT + HCG protocol. Time duration proposed by author of the PDF is estimated until experiencing recovery or for ~ 2-3 months max. It does not says anything about LONG TERM Estrogen supplementation without using TRT.
prop
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by prop »

DJoke wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:51 pm @Prop please do not spread misleading informations. Protocol suggested in the PDF for men is as below:
It's called a TL;DR, is not misleading, and anyone who wants to read the actual paper can check out the link in the OP.

If someone actually attempts to carry out a hormone protocol based only on the TL;DR of a 39-page article, that's on them.

If you have a better TL;DR, post it instead of nitpicking.
Archive of PSSD recovery stories: https://pssd.netlify.app/
User avatar
guacamo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:03 am
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by guacamo »

I do not plan to do this protocol in foreseeable future. I was just curious about the general idea. Im fine with both tl:dr, no need to take it out on each other.
MisterCharlie
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:04 am
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by MisterCharlie »

Terabithia wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:01 pm The following is not my work. The 30 page report is attached here https://we.tl/t-BhUOqZN5G8?src=dnl. The user claims to be cured.

ENDgame. PFS, PSSD, PRSD. - Estrogen Resistance - Read and get rid of it once and for all.
Does anyone know a reliable online source for estradiol benozoate? I believe that is the form recemmended. I'd like to try this protocol and get in touch with Spyros, but I cant figure out how to reach him, his reddit stuff seems to be deleted.
alteredhomeostasis
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by alteredhomeostasis »

The discord that bans members whos trials aren’t going well lol.

Someone posted some screenshots on Reddit; like a dude had a heart attack and some ppl were hospitalized. And the guys is now charging for 1:1 consults lol. Red flags everywhere
User avatar
Joao Paulo Brasil
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Sweaty_Literature_69 on Reddit Theory: Estrogen Resistance. With Response From Dr. Healy

Unread post by Joao Paulo Brasil »

The estrogen gave me some sensitivity in my penis. Especially the first time I used it. It seemed more effective than the large amounts of testosterone I had been using since September. I used estrogen gel, injectable estrogen combined with norestisterone that came with injectable estradiol valerate 5 mg. But now I'm waiting for the pure veterinary estrogen to arrive and I'm going to use it in low doses and see what happens. You hadn't recovered with buspirone and SSRI combined?
Escitalopram and venlafaxine (7 months)
With PSSD FOR MORE THAN 3 YEARS.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 0 guests