Berberine

This is a place to post research you have done on the topic along with your conclusions.
mrstaircase
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by mrstaircase »

R3m3dy wrote:I have started berberine at 200mg 4x day with ABS World 60 Icariin 300 mg 3x per day as per area-1229's protocol, but I am open to different dosing schedules (e.g.: if more berberine might be better, but most user's experiences seem to be better at lower doses). Also started Citrulline, will keep this thread posted.

Theoretically, Berberine's interaction with Cyrochrome P450 could affect the metabolism of some drugs. In practice, would you expect to see any issues in taking 100mg sildenafil while on berberine/icariin given its interaction with CYP3A4 or would it be fine?
I wouldn't do that. Both berberine and icariin downregulate pde5 expression. And with the inhibition of cP450 you are asking for trouble. It will fuck up your eyes. Go with a way lower dose than usual. 25mg or 50 if really needed.
enriqueiglesias
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by enriqueiglesias »

Like St. John's Wort, Berberine tends to directly "unlock" sensitivity to a large degree for me. This seems to indicate that postsynaptic 5-HT1a antagonism is good for me short-term, but probably not longterm. (Pre-synaptic 5-HT1a agonism is not special but usually beneficial.) Due to Berberine's dopamine antagonism however the short-term response is usually held back, leaving the effect afterwards an odd mixture, although most of the sensitivity is gone.
I'd prefer to try the opposite of Berberine with post-synaptic 5-HT1a agonism (and downregulation) over a longer period of time, I don't see a plausible reason for Berberine should help me longterm. However post-synaptic 5-HT1a receptors seem really hardy and not downregulate easily from agonism.
EDIT: I withdraw my statements regarding acute and after-effects, which maybe I wanted to do before. It has to be tested for a week a more minimum to be sure, and it can be difficult to strictly distinguish acute and after-effects in a range of a few hours. Postsynaptic upregulation might be the way to go (but also presynaptic upregulation, which just puts a halt on excess serotonin).
Last edited by enriqueiglesias on Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ErgogenicHealth
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by ErgogenicHealth »

What effect do you suppose berberine would have?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15350820/

“The anxiolytic mechanism of BER might be related to the increase in turnover rates of monoamines in the brain stem and decreased serotonergic system activity. Moreover, BER decreased serotonergic system activity via activation of somatodendritic 5-HT1A autoreceptors and inhibition of postsynaptic 5-HT1A and 5-HT2 receptors.”

Does this mean berberine would decrease 5-HT1A autoreceptor activity over time and increase 5-HT1A postsynaptic receptor activity?
R3m3dy
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by R3m3dy »

mrstaircase wrote:
R3m3dy wrote:I have started berberine at 200mg 4x day with ABS World 60 Icariin 300 mg 3x per day as per area-1229's protocol, but I am open to different dosing schedules (e.g.: if more berberine might be better, but most user's experiences seem to be better at lower doses). Also started Citrulline, will keep this thread posted.

Theoretically, Berberine's interaction with Cyrochrome P450 could affect the metabolism of some drugs. In practice, would you expect to see any issues in taking 100mg sildenafil while on berberine/icariin given its interaction with CYP3A4 or would it be fine?
I wouldn't do that. Both berberine and icariin downregulate pde5 expression. And with the inhibition of cP450 you are asking for trouble. It will fuck up your eyes. Go with a way lower dose than usual. 25mg or 50 if really needed.
Have been on Berberine/Icariin for a couple months now. Increased dose from 4x200 mg to 3x 400 mg / day most days a couple weeks ago. Got another month left, although will need to order more berberine if I want another full month of it.

Cons:
-Overall my dick still doesn't work

Pros:
-Haven't seemed to experience DHT related sides noticeably. Still have body odour, facial hair growth seems to be about the same although I'm not positive about that
-Haven't noticed any muscle wasting, but I work out so this should offset any muscle loss. Haven't noticed any detrimental effects on physical performance, if anything it has improved.
-Not PSSD-related, but I do seem to be a little bit more lean and vascular
-I am not a good listener and still used higher dose PDE5 inhibitors with no bad effects. (Luckily I still have my eyes :lol:. Initially I used 100mg viagra with some extra vardenafil, which I have dropped down to just the viagra. I definitely do not need 100mg but I am afraid of my performance suffering if I reduce dose so I haven't experimented yet. I may try 75mg as that dose has worked for me well in the past and keep dropping until I find the minimum effective dose. I do suspect that icariin/berberine has improved effectiveness of PDE5 inhibitors
-Oddly enough, PDE5 inhibitor-related side effects seem to have diminished? I noticed I no longer get congestion. Maybe this is coincidental.
-suspected improved control over orgasm upon increasing berberine dose
-seemingly increased semen volume, likely from icariin
-difficult to explain, but libido feels like it may have increased in ways that are not affected by PSSD. So I have experienced a slight, overall increase, but it has not fixed my pssd. I've noticed improved libido when it comes to intimacy, although just as low as ever otherwise and possibly even lower in some ways.



Will post another update once I am done if anything changes.
Jaxx
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 7:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by Jaxx »

nice, thanks for the update!
IHateProzac
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:37 am
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by IHateProzac »

R3m3dy wrote:
mrstaircase wrote:
R3m3dy wrote:I have started berberine at 200mg 4x day with ABS World 60 Icariin 300 mg 3x per day as per area-1229's protocol, but I am open to different dosing schedules (e.g.: if more berberine might be better, but most user's experiences seem to be better at lower doses). Also started Citrulline, will keep this thread posted.

Theoretically, Berberine's interaction with Cyrochrome P450 could affect the metabolism of some drugs. In practice, would you expect to see any issues in taking 100mg sildenafil while on berberine/icariin given its interaction with CYP3A4 or would it be fine?
I wouldn't do that. Both berberine and icariin downregulate pde5 expression. And with the inhibition of cP450 you are asking for trouble. It will fuck up your eyes. Go with a way lower dose than usual. 25mg or 50 if really needed.
Have been on Berberine/Icariin for a couple months now. Increased dose from 4x200 mg to 3x 400 mg / day most days a couple weeks ago. Got another month left, although will need to order more berberine if I want another full month of it.

Cons:
-Overall my dick still doesn't work

Pros:
-Haven't seemed to experience DHT related sides noticeably. Still have body odour, facial hair growth seems to be about the same although I'm not positive about that
-Haven't noticed any muscle wasting, but I work out so this should offset any muscle loss. Haven't noticed any detrimental effects on physical performance, if anything it has improved.
-Not PSSD-related, but I do seem to be a little bit more lean and vascular
-I am not a good listener and still used higher dose PDE5 inhibitors with no bad effects. (Luckily I still have my eyes :lol:. Initially I used 100mg viagra with some extra vardenafil, which I have dropped down to just the viagra. I definitely do not need 100mg but I am afraid of my performance suffering if I reduce dose so I haven't experimented yet. I may try 75mg as that dose has worked for me well in the past and keep dropping until I find the minimum effective dose. I do suspect that icariin/berberine has improved effectiveness of PDE5 inhibitors
-Oddly enough, PDE5 inhibitor-related side effects seem to have diminished? I noticed I no longer get congestion. Maybe this is coincidental.
-suspected improved control over orgasm upon increasing berberine dose
-seemingly increased semen volume, likely from icariin
-difficult to explain, but libido feels like it may have increased in ways that are not affected by PSSD. So I have experienced a slight, overall increase, but it has not fixed my pssd. I've noticed improved libido when it comes to intimacy, although just as low as ever otherwise and possibly even lower in some ways.



Will post another update once I am done if anything changes.
So, what is your routine with this?

* Which brand of Berberine are you taking?
* Can you be specific about Icariin. Are you taking icariin in the form Horney Goat Weed, or specifically icariin supplement?
* What's is the dosage, for the both?
* Do you take Berberine and PDE5i/Viagra together, or discontinue Berberine the day you want to use PDE-5i/Viagra?
R3m3dy
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by R3m3dy »

IHateProzac wrote:
So, what is your routine with this?

* Which brand of Berberine are you taking?
* Can you be specific about Icariin. Are you taking icariin in the form Horney Goat Weed, or specifically icariin supplement?
* What's is the dosage, for the both?
* Do you take Berberine and PDE5i/Viagra together, or discontinue Berberine the day you want to use PDE-5i/Viagra?
-Berberine I purchased off of amazon - I don't think the brand matters much, as long as what you are getting is pure Berberine, no fillers. I don't actually know if what I got is a "good" brand or not, but it comes in 600mg capsules.

-I am using A.B.S. World Icariin 60, as per Jay's protocol. It is Horny Goat Weed standardized for 60% icariin. I take 3x300 mg caps of it per day, again as per the label (and Jay's protocol) for a total of 540mg of actual icariin per day. Occasionally I will take an extra cap in a day and dose 2 prior to "activity" and then just take 2 the following day. Not sure this really makes a difference.

-Berberine I was taking 4x 200 mg per day but have increased to usually dosing 3x400mg per day, or sometimes 2x600 mg per day, or 1x600, 2x300, etc. I have taken up to 1400mg total in a day a couple times. I take it with meals if I can, if not on an empty stomach/before bed. If I remember/it's convenient I will take it with coconut oil which has been shown to increase absorption, but I've only done that a handful of times. It would be worthwhile to make a point of that if you could I think.

-I actually meant to edit my post and mention this, I do not take Berberine and V together - I try take the Berberine 4-5 hours prior and at least a few hours after dosing V since Berberine has a half life of a few hours (although it's longer in the liver). I have taken berberine closer with smaller doses of V (and similar) I have taken before bed for "maintenance" and not died but I wouldn't say it's a great idea. I personally wouldn't chance it with high doses because it seems unnecessary. It probably won't kill you but the possibility of negative effects is there.
IHateProzac
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:37 am
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by IHateProzac »

R3m3dy wrote:
IHateProzac wrote:
So, what is your routine with this?

* Which brand of Berberine are you taking?
* Can you be specific about Icariin. Are you taking icariin in the form Horney Goat Weed, or specifically icariin supplement?
* What's is the dosage, for the both?
* Do you take Berberine and PDE5i/Viagra together, or discontinue Berberine the day you want to use PDE-5i/Viagra?
-Berberine I purchased off of amazon - I don't think the brand matters much, as long as what you are getting is pure Berberine, no fillers. I don't actually know if what I got is a "good" brand or not, but it comes in 600mg capsules.

-I am using A.B.S. World Icariin 60, as per Jay's protocol. It is Horny Goat Weed standardized for 60% icariin. I take 3x300 mg caps of it per day, again as per the label (and Jay's protocol) for a total of 540mg of actual icariin per day. Occasionally I will take an extra cap in a day and dose 2 prior to "activity" and then just take 2 the following day. Not sure this really makes a difference.

-Berberine I was taking 4x 200 mg per day but have increased to usually dosing 3x400mg per day, or sometimes 2x600 mg per day, or 1x600, 2x300, etc. I have taken up to 1400mg total in a day a couple times. I take it with meals if I can, if not on an empty stomach/before bed. If I remember/it's convenient I will take it with coconut oil which has been shown to increase absorption, but I've only done that a handful of times. It would be worthwhile to make a point of that if you could I think.

-I actually meant to edit my post and mention this, I do not take Berberine and V together - I try take the Berberine 4-5 hours prior and at least a few hours after dosing V since Berberine has a half life of a few hours (although it's longer in the liver). I have taken berberine closer with smaller doses of V (and similar) I have taken before bed for "maintenance" and not died but I wouldn't say it's a great idea. I personally wouldn't chance it with high doses because it seems unnecessary. It probably won't kill you but the possibility of negative effects is there.
This is one thing that I have wanted to know, if it is okay to take PDE5i/Viagra the same day as Berberine; of course, with few hours apart?
mrstaircase
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by mrstaircase »

Yes you can do it. Just stick to lower doses.
But you need to know that berberine alters pde5 expression. So you need lower doses of pde5 inhibitors the longer you use it. I went from 200mg viagra before berberine to 50 afterwards.

But taldafil is way more effective in the long run. It also alters pde5 expression like berberine and iccarin.
Besides that it also helps with the testosteron to estrogen ratio.

I can also vouch for the fact that berberine seems to remove negative pde5 inhibitor side effects. Even after stopping.
R3m3dy
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:43 pm
Contact:

Re: Berberine

Unread post by R3m3dy »

mrstaircase wrote:Yes you can do it. Just stick to lower doses.
But you need to know that berberine alters pde5 expression. So you need lower doses of pde5 inhibitors the longer you use it. I went from 200mg viagra before berberine to 50 afterwards.

But taldafil is way more effective in the long run. It also alters pde5 expression like berberine and iccarin.
Besides that it also helps with the testosteron to estrogen ratio.

I can also vouch for the fact that berberine seems to remove negative pde5 inhibitor side effects. Even after stopping.
I have tadalafil on hand but have not used it in ages. In your experience what is the most effective way to use it dose/frequency wise? Do you take it daily (I recall you taking it with berberine/icariin)? Do you use viagra as well?

I used tadalafil regularly a couple years back and it gave me back pain. Would be nice if berberine eliminated that side effect for me.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests