Wellbutrin

[Kk88]

Really interesting post - thanks taarn. It’s so bloody unfair that everything is temporary when it comes to improvements - it seems like PSSD Is the only permenant thing

[RainebowGirl]

Hi RainebowGirl,

What you described is exactly like my experience with Wellbutrin (bupropion). And no, it is definitely no placebo. It is somewhat common that bupropion works for a week or a few days for PSSD and even for other kind of permanent/long-term sexual dysfunction sufferers. After that it eventually wears out. Bupropion is a weak dopamine and somewhat stronger norephineprine reuptake inhibitor in humans and it also increases vesicular DA uptake through VMAT-2.
Guessing exactly which properties of bupropion cause the increase in libido is not trivial but I guess it's not just simply its DA reuptake inhibiting property. But becasue of instantly raising catecholamine levels it has an instant stimulating effect, this is not to be confused with it's antidepressant effect. For me if I go over 75mg I notice increased anxiety and alertness and above 150mg the anxiety is getting very hard to manage. For me the libido and genital sensitivity increase kicks in the next day or near the end of the first day I took it.

However it was shown that bupropion eventually desensitizes 5-HT1A autoreceptors in the DRN which leads to higher serotonin neurotransmission. (I guess it has to do something with desensitzing alpha2-adrenoreceptors) I think this is where it's pro-libido effects wear out. So to avoid this I only used it in 2-3 days cycles. It gave me ~100% sexual functioning when I was just partly destroyed by mirtazapine but after the last few pills totally killed my sexual function bupropion almost ceased to work.

You can try taking it for longer but I think it will wear out eventually. For me it was better to take it in 2-3 cycles @daily 100-150 mg. It worked best when I took daily 2 x 75mg.
So if you decide to do further experiments with it I will be very interested of your results!
(But I think there is some better stuff than bupropion)

Thank you so much for that informative reply! That cleared a lot of things up for me.

Then I think I'll take the other half of the pill (since I have it anyway) and cease use for here on out. Maybe I'll get lucky and my baseline will improve from here.

And agreed, Kk88. Very frustrating Time to test out some other things, then!

[Numby]

For me, the positive effects of Wellbutrin are permanent (I guess after more than a year I can say this).
Lubrication went from close to zero to 80 or 90 percent.
Libido from close to zero to maybe 60 to 70 percent.
Sensitivity from nearly total numbness to 60 to 80 percent.
And I noticed the “anatomical” changes I talked about in another post (like clitoris, g-spot etc.) and some other things I described in an old post.

So I don’t think that what you, rainbowegirl, describe was placebo. Since you cut the pill in two it’s possible that the substance was absorbed more quickly and you kind of “overdosed” a little. Also, what I first noticed on Wellbutrin was similar, a subtle feeling of warmth “down there”. I also thought it was placebo at that time but it definitely wasn’t.

Personally, I’m not a big fan of cycling because I believe it inhibits or destroys all the positive effects and it’s very likely that your body gets used to the ups and downs and won’t react as it would if you kept a constant level of the substance in your blood. But that’s just my personal (nonmedical) opinion.

From what I see here I also get the impression that many people try things for a couple of days or weeks and then stop too early. So I am glad I didn’t stop when I thought the effect had worn out (the post must be somewhere in my post history) because it didn’t.

The sides I experience are: muscle twitches and sometimes chest pain.

[taarn]

Hi Numby,

It depends on a lot of factors. Your personal genetics, your medical history, the meds you took, the damage/alterations done to your brain etc..
The longest time I took it was around a week but it always stopped working after 2-3 days and I was afraid to take it for months because the possibility of additional negative long lasting brain alterations.

Could you tell us what caused your PSSD and how long it lasted before you started taking bupropion? EDIT: I can see that it was fluoxetine. So basically PSSD lasted for 10 years without any improvement and in 2017 you started taking Wellbutrin and experienced improvement first time since?
Were you depressed before you started taking bupropion? And what was the nature of your 'recovery'?
I mean did it start working after just a few pills and become better gradually ever since?
Or did it take weeks to initially kick in and became better gradually ever after?
Or did start to work in the beginning, then stopped, then working again, so was it fluctuating?

Your insights would be helpful, I'm really interested.

[RainebowGirl]

For me, the positive effects of Wellbutrin are permanent (I guess after more than a year I can say this).
Lubrication went from close to zero to 80 or 90 percent.
Libido from close to zero to maybe 60 to 70 percent.
Sensitivity from nearly total numbness to 60 to 80 percent.
And I noticed the “anatomical” changes I talked about in another post (like clitoris, g-spot etc.) and some other things I described in an old post.

So I don’t think that what you, rainbowegirl, describe was placebo. Since you cut the pill in two it’s possible that the substance was absorbed more quickly and you kind of “overdosed” a little. Also, what I first noticed on Wellbutrin was similar, a subtle feeling of warmth “down there”. I also thought it was placebo at that time but it definitely wasn’t.

Personally, I’m not a big fan of cycling because I believe it inhibits or destroys all the positive effects and it’s very likely that your body gets used to the ups and downs and won’t react as it would if you kept a constant level of the substance in your blood. But that’s just my personal (nonmedical) opinion.

From what I see here I also get the impression that many people try things for a couple of days or weeks and then stop too early. So I am glad I didn’t stop when I thought the effect had worn out (the post must be somewhere in my post history) because it didn’t.

The sides I experience are: muscle twitches and sometimes chest pain.

Hello! Thank you!
May I ask you how it worked for you? What were some of the anatomic changes you noticed? How long did it take and how long did you decide to stay on it? Did you only notice results after raising your dose and did you slowly taper off of it or stop one day?

Now (a day later, having taken that half pill), my genital numbness went from 0 to 45ish to 20. Which is still way better than it was. It was to the point where I might as well not have had a clit, I could not feel it AT ALL when I touched it. I'm not saying it felt numb to the touch, I'm saying I could only tell I was touching it by the feeling on my fingertips. Now I can feel it, although it does feel numb. So I'm kind of hopeful; I can for sure tell it's not placebo!

I might make a real try of this since it can't get much worse than it has been. It's been at 0 across the board for close to 4 years now, so I doubt I have anything to lose by trying. I think my improvements are from the 100mg pill I took, rather than the half pill (like you said, I think those might have been a bad idea). Now I just need to figure out the half life and if that dosage works for me. I'm kind of afraid of taking too high a dose.

Is 100mg too much, you think? Cause those are the only pills I have at the moment.

[taarn]

Hello! Thank you!
May I ask you how it worked for you? What were some of the anatomic changes you noticed? How long did it take and how long did you decide to stay on it? Did you only notice results after raising your dose and did you slowly taper off of it or stop one day?

Now (a day later, having taken that half pill), my genital numbness went from 0 to 45ish to 20. Which is still way better than it was. It was to the point where I might as well not have had a clit, I could not feel it AT ALL when I touched it. I'm not saying it felt numb to the touch, I'm saying I could only tell I was touching it by the feeling on my fingertips. Now I can feel it, although it does feel numb. So I'm kind of hopeful; I can for sure tell it's not placebo!

I might make a real try of this since it can't get much worse than it has been. It's been at 0 across the board for close to 4 years now, so I doubt I have anything to lose by trying. I think my improvements are from the 100mg pill I took, rather than the half pill (like you said, I think those might have been a bad idea). Now I just need to figure out the half life and if that dosage works for me. I'm kind of afraid of taking too high a dose.

Is 100mg too much, you think? Cause those are the only pills I have at the moment.

Dosage greatly depends on person. Standard therapeutic doses are 150 - 300mg, 450mg being the top. I've also heard of someone taking 600mg but that's not what I would suggest.
So in my opinion 100mg is just perfect for you to start with. Cutting the pills may speed up absorption a bit but won't make too much difference.
Wellbutrin SR pills are basically engineered to be taken twice daily, but ofc it won't get totally out of your system for the second half of the day, especially if you take it for long term, not to mention the changes in neurotransmission that it causes. So you should have been experiencing some kind of cumulative effect when you took 100mg and 50mg the next day.

If you want the most steady serum levels I suggest you taking 2 halfs / day. So for 100mg 2x50mg/day. If you felt that 100mg was too much then take 50mg for 2-3 days then raise the dose to 100mg.
You can also get Wellbutrin XR, that's made to be single dosed / day.

[RainebowGirl]

Hello! Thank you!
May I ask you how it worked for you? What were some of the anatomic changes you noticed? How long did it take and how long did you decide to stay on it? Did you only notice results after raising your dose and did you slowly taper off of it or stop one day?

Now (a day later, having taken that half pill), my genital numbness went from 0 to 45ish to 20. Which is still way better than it was. It was to the point where I might as well not have had a clit, I could not feel it AT ALL when I touched it. I'm not saying it felt numb to the touch, I'm saying I could only tell I was touching it by the feeling on my fingertips. Now I can feel it, although it does feel numb. So I'm kind of hopeful; I can for sure tell it's not placebo!

I might make a real try of this since it can't get much worse than it has been. It's been at 0 across the board for close to 4 years now, so I doubt I have anything to lose by trying. I think my improvements are from the 100mg pill I took, rather than the half pill (like you said, I think those might have been a bad idea). Now I just need to figure out the half life and if that dosage works for me. I'm kind of afraid of taking too high a dose.

Is 100mg too much, you think? Cause those are the only pills I have at the moment.

Dosage greatly depends on person. Standard therapeutic doses are 150 - 300mg, 450mg being the top. I've also heard of someone taking 600mg but that's not what I would suggest.
So in my opinion 100mg is just perfect for you to start with. Cutting the pills may speed up absorption a bit but won't make too much difference.
Wellbutrin SR pills are basically engineered to be taken twice daily, but ofc it won't get totally out of your system for the second half of the day, especially if you take it for long term, not to mention the changes in neurotransmission that it causes. So you should have been experiencing some kind of cumulative effect when you took 100mg and 50mg the next day.

If you want the most steady serum levels I suggest you taking 2 halfs / day. So for 100mg 2x50mg/day. If you felt that 100mg was too much then take 50mg for 2-3 days then raise the dose to 100mg.
You can also get Wellbutrin XR, that's made to be single dosed / day.

Okay, great! I would honestly prefer closer to 50-75mg, but I'm working with what I have left. I'll try taking it once a week or so and see if the improvements are cumulative over time.

And the ones I'm using are XR, unfortunateyy, which is why I realized I can't cut them in half.

[taarn]

Hello! Thank you!
May I ask you how it worked for you? What were some of the anatomic changes you noticed? How long did it take and how long did you decide to stay on it? Did you only notice results after raising your dose and did you slowly taper off of it or stop one day?

Now (a day later, having taken that half pill), my genital numbness went from 0 to 45ish to 20. Which is still way better than it was. It was to the point where I might as well not have had a clit, I could not feel it AT ALL when I touched it. I'm not saying it felt numb to the touch, I'm saying I could only tell I was touching it by the feeling on my fingertips. Now I can feel it, although it does feel numb. So I'm kind of hopeful; I can for sure tell it's not placebo!

I might make a real try of this since it can't get much worse than it has been. It's been at 0 across the board for close to 4 years now, so I doubt I have anything to lose by trying. I think my improvements are from the 100mg pill I took, rather than the half pill (like you said, I think those might have been a bad idea). Now I just need to figure out the half life and if that dosage works for me. I'm kind of afraid of taking too high a dose.

Is 100mg too much, you think? Cause those are the only pills I have at the moment.

Dosage greatly depends on person. Standard therapeutic doses are 150 - 300mg, 450mg being the top. I've also heard of someone taking 600mg but that's not what I would suggest.
So in my opinion 100mg is just perfect for you to start with. Cutting the pills may speed up absorption a bit but won't make too much difference.
Wellbutrin SR pills are basically engineered to be taken twice daily, but ofc it won't get totally out of your system for the second half of the day, especially if you take it for long term, not to mention the changes in neurotransmission that it causes. So you should have been experiencing some kind of cumulative effect when you took 100mg and 50mg the next day.

If you want the most steady serum levels I suggest you taking 2 halfs / day. So for 100mg 2x50mg/day. If you felt that 100mg was too much then take 50mg for 2-3 days then raise the dose to 100mg.
You can also get Wellbutrin XR, that's made to be single dosed / day.

Okay, great! I would honestly prefer closer to 50-75mg, but I'm working with what I have left. I'll try taking it once a week or so and see if the improvements are cumulative over time.

And the ones I'm using are XR, unfortunateyy, which is why I realized I can't cut them in half.

Yes you can try to take it 1-2 days / week and see what sticks. If you find the positive results mostly being acute and tied to the days you were taking the pills then you can also try later taking it constantly.

I would be interested in you results Good luck!

[RainebowGirl]

Yes you can try to take it 1-2 days / week and see what sticks. If you find the positive results mostly being acute and tied to the days you were taking the pills then you can also try later taking it constantly.

I would be interested in you results Good luck!

Thank you so much! I'll try this until March and then detail my progress (good or bad) here.

Also, sort of update. I went out and socialized with a group of friends I haven't seen in almost a month now. Interacting still felt very off, but I didn't feel strained to laugh genuinely or enjoy their company. When I got back last night, I noticed my numbness went back down to 15-20%, but I had been feeling more flashes of arousal throughout the day. After waking up this morning, my arousal/libido feels like it's back up to 65%, no joke. Well, maybe spontaneous arousal is still lower, more like 40. But libido is way, way up. Closer to how I felt before, years ago.

There was a point where I started to view my genitals as not a part of myself (dysphoria?) because even pleasant sensations didn't register there. It's so surreal to, say, feel someone stroke my back and feel the reaction in my genitals as well. I know that's really awkward phrasing, but I'm not quite sure how else to explain it.

[Numby]

Numby 82’s Wellbutrin/Elontril/Bupropion Log

Since I’m mentioning the positive effects of Bupropion every now and then and since there have been some questions, I decided to write a log-like post on it. Especially in the beginning I kept record about my body’s reaction to Bupropion, so I know what happened.

History
PSSD from: Fluoxetine
Reason for taking the drug: depression + bulimia (10 years)
Dosage: initially 20mg, increase to 60mg
History of sexual dysfunction BEFORE Fluoxetine: absolutely no, never had any problems whatsoever, positive attitude towards sexuality, no history of sexual abuse
Discontinuation: tapering over 9 months (Nov. 2007 to August 2008)
Duration of treatment: April 2007 to August 2008

Side effects on Fluoxetine: extreme fatigue, weird and scary dreams, urinary urgency, sexual dysfunction
Positive effect of fluoxetine: stopped bulimic behavior in about 6 weeks (incredible!)

Sexual side effects under Fluoxetine (in order of occurrence):
• total anorgasmia
• genital anesthesia
• decrease in libido
• no lubrication
• vagina very dry (changes in vaginal secretion, always whitish)
• g-spot position very high all the time
• clitoris numb and no reaction to stimulation (no changes in size when stimulated)
• sensation of coldness (vagina)
• no erotic dreams (history of very intense erotic dreams before fluoxetine, including physical reaction like lubrication and orgasms)
• total asexuality

Symptoms after discontinuation (until October 2017, then I started Bupropion):
• gradual improvements
• pleasureless orgasms possible (around spring 2009), later orgasms rather normal
• decrease of genital anesthesia (sensitivity around 5 to 10% of pre-fluoxetine level)
• very reduced lubrication
• huge problems keeping up arousal during intercourse
• vaginal secretion different than before fluoxetine
• g-spot remains far too high
• sensation of coldness, also during intercourse, feels as if my vagina belonged to someone else's body
• erotic dreams return, but absolutely no physical reaction (total numbness on waking up, arousal is an illusion, feels like the “signals” and fantasies in my brain don’t reach my vagina)

Windows: No. It was awful. I felt so "defective" and numb.

Bupropion log:
Exact drug: Elontril 150mg/300mg mit veränderter Wirkstofffreigabe/Retardtabletten (=Wellbutrin sustained release/SR)
Manufacturer: GlaxoSmithKline (important, see September 2018 below)
• first dose on October 28, 2017, in the morning
• October 28 and 29: mood is stable and positive, slight chest pain
• October 30: slight sexdrive (I thought it was placebo)
• October 30 to November 5: weird and scary dreams (nightmares), lack of concentration
• November 5 to November 11: nightmares, insomnia around 3 AM every night, huge increase in libido and sensitivity, spontaneous feeling of arousal (artificial feeling), wonderful orgasms, butterflies in my stomach (first time in 10 years), muscle twitches
• November 12 - 16: libido very high, anorgasmia, reduced sensitivity --> “panic”, I’m losing “it” again
• November 17: libido very high, difficult to orgasm, strong muscle twitches inside my belly, reduced sensitivity
• November 18 to December 1: no more nightmares, muscle twitches continue (arms/upper body), no more insomnia, reduced libido, reduced sensitivity --> “panic” (see my post from Novemer 26)

• December 1 to 4: upped dosage to 300mg (first time), no nightmares, muscle twitches continue, insomnia around 3 AM
• December 17: no sexual desire since November 17, several erotic dreams with no physical reaction (“panic”!!), feeling of better blood flow (vagina/erogenous zone)
• Since December 17: strong increase in libido, feels more natural than on 150mg, orgasms feel good, sensitivity is good, lubrication is wonderful, mood is good, muscle twitches continue, rarely weird dreams, sometimes chest pain
• September 2018: changed manufacturer due to delivery problems (before: GlaxoSmithKline, then: Bupropion Hexal) --> huge increase in libido (toooo much!!), very artificial feeling (“electric”?), I feel very sexual, it is very disturbing --> I go back to GlaxoSmithKline, everything back to “normal”

• October 2018: decreased dosage from 300mg daily to one day 150mg, one day 300mg, no negative effects on sexual functioning

• November 2018: I have the courage to sleep with a man that I find very attractive and it is awesome. Lubrication is 100%, sensitivity is good, no pain, no problems keeping up arousal, everything feels so natural and so good. It never felt like that in the 10 years after Fluoxetine.